[P.C.D.]How do you think a Pack Leader should be and act?

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[P.C.D.]How do you think a Pack Leader should be and act?

Post by Sintact » Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:43 pm

(P.C.D.: Pack Central Discussion → Since there was no space to put all the definition in the title.)

I present you this question as I see there are many packs (not multiplayer packs) with lack of members. This is currently not a problem of the pack itself but an issue that involves the user that is managing the pack.

- How do you think a Pack Leader should be?
- How is your way to define a good leader?
- Which characteristics should a pack have in order for you to join?

All registered users that answer this questions will be helping future pack leaders, actual packs and will get new ways and ideas for improving their pack.

P.S.: I didn't post this at Pack Central because probably a Mod would move it to general discussions (as Pack Central is not the place to discuss this kind of stuff).
Last edited by Sintact on Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [P.C.D.]How do you think a Pack Leader should be and act

Post by valkea » Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:07 pm

Ah, nice thread.

In my opinion, a good pack leader is mature person who doesn't play favourites and can deal with drama without making it a big deal. They also can't be too controlling - what fun is it to be in a pack where you have no say in anything? I think pack members need to have some sort of say in what happens in the pack. I like it when the pack leader asks their members what they think of something first instead of just going ahead and doing something/not doing something. Additionally, they need to be active and able to keep up with the pack - something I admit to being terrible at. They can't give up on the pack easily, I see some packs closing down after a short period of inactivity simply because the pack leader doesn't want to put in the effort of advertising and keeping people active. I'm probably not making too much sense here, but basically what I'm saying is a good pack leader is one who pays attention to the pack and puts effort into it, in addition to what I said in the beginning of my post.

For me to join a pack, I need to see activity. I like to see at least a few posts a day, not one post every three days or something like that. Also, while extremely active packs are good, I prefer something in the "middle" of inactive and extremely active, so I can keep up with it, but not wait a week for something to happen. I usually join as a "pack friend" first to see if I like the pack, then if I decide if it's a good fit I'll join. Because of that, I also need to see some sort of pack friend "rank". In addition, I prefer to be in a pack that isn't just the same basic pack. I need to see something unique - whether it's a rank name, a unique system, or anything really. The front post design also helps me with my decision. If someone just has a very basic layout with basic colours I assume that the leader didn't put much effort into it. However, if a pack has a really nicely designed front post I may be more tempted to join.

Also, one last thing. I like a balance between normal "chatting" and roleplay. In fact, I love it even more if roleplaying is optional, though I'm sure most people want a pack that focuses on roleplay.

TL;DR: Pack leaders should be mature and not add to drama, play favourites, or be too controlling. Pack leaders should ask their members what they think of something, and they need to actually care about the pack. They can't give up easily. Balance between chatting and roleplay is good, optional roleplaying is even better. A good activity level(not too high, not too low), a pack friend rank, something unique, and a nice front post is a requirement in my mind.
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Re: [P.C.D.]How do you think a Pack Leader should be and act

Post by Sintact » Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:32 pm

That’s a really good definition Hidden, thanks for sharing.

To me, a pack leader should also be mature (understanding by this that she or he must know how to solve a problem, how to avoid them and how to prevent them. Know how to deal with people of different ages, etc), organized (organization is something I really search in an individual, especially if we are talking about a leader. Since I’m kind of a maniac for organization; for me a good leader must be so. The user must have a structured first post, guidelines and order).

I don’t care much about age since I have seen teenagers (13 years) behaving more maturely than a 16 year old other user.

As how does the pack leader act; balanced, fair, responsible and motivated. Those are my prime requirements.

By saying motivated I mean a leader that is eager to complete pack activities, that has the will of building up a good relationship between the members, etc.

In a pack I also like to see unique things, a website or forum for role-playing (since here we are not able to role-play, I think it’s an important part of the pack), games and activities (user of the month, multiplayer games, contests, etc).

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Re: [P.C.D.]How do you think a Pack Leader should be and act

Post by oxoDestinyoxo » Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:52 pm

Interesting thread you have here Sintact!

I share basically the same viewpoint as Hidden. A pack leader should be mature, but not to the point where they are boring. A leader has to be able to handle issues before they get out of hand, or, where possible, before they even start. If a fight was to break out, even if they oppose of one opinion and support the other, they must remain totally neutral, or else you loose the trust of a lot of people by taking sides. In a pack, leaders should not support their friends in every situation. For instance, if your friend breaks a rule, don't go easy on them just because their your friend, and don't give them high ranks just to make them happy. Also, a pack leader should never let a dislike get in the way of their judgement. For instance, if you don't like someone and they are in your pack, don't let that dislike of them get in the way. If they are most suited for a high rank, give it to them. If you want to ban them, find a legit reason before doing so. A leader should also respect their members as they respect the leaders. Meaning you don't bash on members when they are not around, be it in a chatbox or in private messages. Keep it to yourself for goodness sake, for you could really end up hurting someone. (Cyber bullying bro, that's what it is.)

To me, a good leader is someone who listens to their members, acts fairly, and respects their pack and their members. I don't have much an opinion on what get's me to join a pack. I base it mainly on the member base, for I don't care about looks, as long as there in something to do, and the people are enjoyable to be around.

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Re: [P.C.D.]How do you think a Pack Leader should be and act

Post by Granger » Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:44 pm

I'd post some long three paragraph about how pack leaders should act, but I won't. I can explain a good pack leader in a very short and tidy way. Pretty much, if you want to be a good pack leader act like Ninja_Wolfs963 (Crimes XD) and you're set!

The cool thing about there is the pack is relaxed, but when drama comes we all kick into gear and solve the problem quite nicely. The pack there has a nice family as well and is very friendly and loads of fun! I've tried to lead packs myself but normally I get sick of them and close them.. XD I'm definitely not a good pack starter, because no matter what I just find that the pack stinks and the roleplay stinks and I'm the only one posting.
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Re: [P.C.D.]How do you think a Pack Leader should be and act

Post by Sintact » Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:55 pm

Well, that’s why we have to invite people to the pack, advertise it and make it look good and interesting to everyone else.

To me, it’s also important the pack leader’s reputation within the community. I wouldn’t join a pack if the leader doesn’t participate in related WolfQuest discussions or if he or she isn’t truly involved with the community and project itself.

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Re: [P.C.D.]How do you think a Pack Leader should be and act

Post by Adalae » Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:26 pm

I completely agree with Hidden, I think she hit the nail right on the head! Additionally one of the main things I look for is originality. I don't want a leader who slacks off by taking other ideas and pretending that they are his/her own. Additionally some awesome activities are great too, since a pack that involves other things than just rp and chatting is very enjoyable, with contests and the like. I like leaders who are dependable and not biased on certain situations, who can look at something and forget all about what's happened before. This is very hard, granted, but I think mature leaders can do this. Of course leaders also need a hard streak so they can take care of members who are misbehaving and not acting as mature as they should be. Also leaders who meet deadlines with certain projects is awesome (that point is where I have issues). Leaders definitely don't, however, need to be on 24/7. Everyone has a life outside of WQ (i'd hope) and some absences can be alright, though it would be nice for some kind of backup leaders.

Also no leaders who bail on the pack when it gets tough and just leaves some other poor fellow to deal with it. Also if the pack does need to close, some heads up.

Great thread Sintact and hopefully there can be some good discussion :D
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Re: [P.C.D.]How do you think a Pack Leader should be and act

Post by Sintact » Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:42 pm

After having a couple more points of view I will state a fourth and fifth point for going on with the discussion. Or if someone else want to start talking about them now (if you are not interested in the first three points), I will state the fourth one:

- Generally, why do you think there’s so much “pack drama”? Could it be a lack of WQ moderation, a bad organized leader or something else? If you were a pack leader, what would you do for stopping this?

It’s easy to speak about the subject, but being in the leader’s place you got a different point of view. What would you do if two or three pack members start fighting because they wouldn’t get the rank they wanted in the pack (this is happening outside of WQ, in a external page, but they start bringing the problem to the page)?

** All the opinions and different points of view will help someone else to start a pack correctly. Think about this too while commenting!

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Re: [P.C.D.]How do you think a Pack Leader should be and act

Post by Thandi » Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:04 pm

A great pack leader first of all needs to have 'real life' leadership skills to succeed. Leadership cannot be faked. In Pack Central there are a lot of fancy pants layouts and a lot of fluff but some fall apart easily because of lack of true leadership.

If I join a pack again then it will not be because of some elaborate front page or complicated ranking system, but for how well the leader seems to understand their role.

Also,
Sintact wrote:- Generally, why do you think there’s so much “pack drama”? Could it be a lack of WQ moderation, a bad organized leader or something else? If you were a pack leader, what would you do for stopping this?
As for this, pack drama [as I have noticed] is usually the result of loose pack relations and snooty members. But then you have to think to the beginning; If the leader was truly great, would they have accepted such characters into the pack? I think not.
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Re: [P.C.D.]How do you think a Pack Leader should be and act

Post by Sintact » Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:14 pm

Relatively, we have the same idea, Thandi. Some of the packs I have seen –and the ones I had run myself- have some kind of application system in which the new pack member will have to go through a short-mid process for being a complete pack member. I believe that if this system is completed wisely (taking account of other’s pack members opinions and suggestions→ and also ask moderator’s backup for checking warnings, reports or else the new applicant might have); only good well-behaved members that will stick to the pack rules will join. In other words, we stop some part of the pack drama from the beginning; we avoid it by selecting members carefully.

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Re: [P.C.D.]How do you think a Pack Leader should be and act

Post by Adalae » Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:21 pm

Normally I find that pack drama happens on websites instead of on threads most of the time, which really is out of the moderation zone for the mods to help out (unless the drama continues and merges into wq as well). generally, i think it's lack of a good example from the leader of said pack. they need to make it clear that drama is not welcomed in the certain pack.
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Re: [P.C.D.]How do you think a Pack Leader should be and act

Post by Lexwolf » Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:16 pm

I pretty much agree with all the points stated above for those first two questions, so I'll just add a few points I think are important.

A good pack leader needs to know what they're doing with the pack. If they have no clue what to do, then the pack will quickly fall apart. (I speak from experience on that.) They need to be good at making decisions, like whether or not to accept a possible member. They need to look at a possible member's posting history - do they seem like they can keep up with a pack, or have they joined ten packs and only posted once on them? Do they break WQ's rules a lot? Do they make actual contributions to the community, or do they have a hundred useless posts? Because people don't always have a posting history, leaders need to require a certain number of posts for someone to join for that reason. A pack leader needs to not be too strict, but strict enough that people don't end up messing up the pack. (That might sound strange; I didn't really know how to word that sentence. :oops: ) Pack leaders need to really act like members of the pack and actually care about their members. And very importantly, they need to be having fun leading their pack!

For me to consider joining a pack, I want to see a first post that looks well thought-out. I admit, I'll be more inclined to join if the first post looks neat and organized and, well, pretty. If there are already members, they should be active and involved in the pack. I actually prefer smaller, newer packs. And if the ideas for the pack are unique, original, and interesting, I'm much more likely to consider joining than if it's just a typical boring pack.
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Re: [P.C.D.]How do you think a Pack Leader should be and act

Post by Skor » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:15 pm

It appears I'm quite late on the game, so, let's see if I can come up with something.

Firstly, pack leaders should be mature. They should be able to manage their pack correctly and efficiently, and handle problems relating to the pack in an effective fashion. While not being too distant from the main pack members, (this ties in with maturity) a good leader should be above the drama and gossip that happens in any pack, and be able to see things objectively. Of course, while being unbiased is hard, it is not impossible. Leaders who 'take sides' and act unprofessionally can not only harm the pack's well-being directly, it's also a major put-off for anyone considering to join. Much like the US President, the leader/leaders are a symbol of their pack/group. Acting out negatively on personal qualms with people doesn't reflect well.
-Not a single new thought there, so I'll cut it off right here and agree with everyone above.

When considering to join a pack (something I don't do often), I look for a decent website, if present, and a front-post that shows thought has gone into the pack structure and how it will work. Unique themes, ideas, and what-not are also a good thing for any pack, naturally.
I usually look at the list of members, who is leading it, and how. I don't claim to know many people on WolfQuest anymore, but if there's a few members in there that I consider friends (or, at least, if they have decent pack taste), then, naturally, I'd trust the pack more. The leader is important for obvious reasons. Have they shown good leadership before? Are they known for being active and dedicated? How are they running the pack? How much freedom do members get? Do they treat members equally?
That's why, as Hidden stated, a Pack Friend rank of some sort is almost always beneficial.


I think that there's so much pack drama because it's human nature. People can gossip freely with trusted packs and members outside of WolfQuest, and, as I have seen, entire packs can be dragged into one person's problem because of whatever reason they may have. Improper leadership skills, leading to just generally bad, problem members is just a breeding ground for such things. While I do advocate certain levels of Internet-acceptable trust, with it must also come respect, and the ability to keep thoughts to yourself. True for all that are in the WolfQuest community. How this is to be ended, I do not know, and because I know that I don't know how to deal with such, I have refrained from starting my own pack.
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Re: [P.C.D.]How do you think a Pack Leader should be and act

Post by Steeps » Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:32 am

Seeing as I used to dabble in PC quite a bit in my first year or so, I think I can contribute to this :) .
Sintact wrote:- How do you think a Pack Leader should be?
A pack leader should be online at least three times a week, more if they can. They should be capable of making a pack website, as well as be creative of mind in thinking up ways to keep thier pack interesting and alive. They should also be literate in role-play and in posting on WQ.

So in summary, a pack leader should be active, literate, technologically capable and creative.

Sintact wrote:- How is your way to define a good leader?
If they do not posess the qualitites that I mentioned above, then I do not think they would be an effective pack leader, and I probably wouldn't join thier pack. It also helps to have a good reputation on the site. In other words, don't be that user who starts up a new pack every month because they give up on thier old one too soon.
Sintact wrote:- Which characteristics should a pack have in order for you to join?
As for the pack itself, it should first an foremost be centered around an original idea. When I say original, I mean original on WolfQuest, not of in the entire world. I wouldn't say no to a Hunger Games-based fan pack for example, if it looked like a good pack to me. It just needs to be original on WQ. An orignal pack theme with slightly different aspects to its role-play or contests, perhaps to coencide with the pack theme. There is more to a good pack then a smashing name!

Speaking of names, thats important too. Not just to pack members either. The pack name is the first thing a user will know about your pack, before they choose to view your pack's topic. It could make or break the oppertunity for a new member! Pick something really unique; go outside the box.

The pack should also have at least a few regular members for it to be competitive. I wouldn't care if a pack only had five members, as long as they were posting on the topic and in activities in a regualr, consistent manner. In fact, packs that have many, many members may intimidate some users from joining. Yet at the same time, this roubust activity will attract others. Keep in mind that quieter members looking for a tight-knit group may seek out the smaller packs, while users looking for a more fast-paced place to role-play and socialize will seek out those 20+ member packs. When making a pack, think about what kind of community you want to build. Will it be small and tight-knit, or large and bustling with many members? Its all prefrence. Each has thier drawbacks and draw-ins.

To whom it many concern, I hope you learned something today^^!

EDIT: Oh, there appears to be a late edition!

Sintact wrote:- Generally, why do you think there’s so much “pack drama”? Could it be a lack of WQ moderation, a bad organized leader or something else? If you were a pack leader, what would you do for stopping this?
Oddly enough--maybe I wasn't in enough packs long enough to see it, I'm a bit of a wanderer--I haven't had much experience with pack drama. Well, its been around, I just haven't been involved in it, per say.

But I think the source of some of the drama is within the pack dynamics itself--drama begins to cross over from pack to pack, blending pack boundaries. Members keep grudges and form alliances that have nothing to do with the pack they are currently in. This can create unwanted tension between familiar members and render members 'outside of the loop' feeling detached and obsolete. Overall, an unhappy pack.

As to what I would do, that is a very broad question. Drama in itself is very general. And there are many, many possible scenarios. So I guess I would kick the drama queens out of the pack. But I do feel that, if I was in a position of leadership, they wouldn't have made it into my pack in the first place, since the only pack I would be interested in leading would be an intermediate to advanced role-play group with very few members and a strict selection process :wink: .

I would also avoid creating packs that begin with several leaders that are pre-chosen good friends. This may sound strange, but from experience, leaders that were chosen along with everyone else through fair trial and experience often turn out to be more loyal and directed than the members you already 'know and trust' beforehand. When a pack starts out, only the leader truly knows what he or she wants from thier pack. When several people try to lead a new pack at once, conflicting ideas and opinions cross, and everything takes longer to decide, sometime leading to the early closure of what could have been a great pack. Having one overall leader calling the shots (with the suggestions of others to simply guide) is a much more effective, drama-free way to mamage a pack.

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Re: [P.C.D.]How do you think a Pack Leader should be and act

Post by valkea » Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:09 am

- Generally, why do you think there’s so much “pack drama”? Could it be a lack of WQ moderation, a bad organized leader or something else? If you were a pack leader, what would you do for stopping this?
Pack drama seems to occur mostly off-site, so a lack of moderation on WQ would have nothing to do it with it. Instead, I think most pack drama stems from a few different reasons - lack of information, incorrect information, bad examples set by the leader or other high-ranking members, disrespect, members simply not liking each other, and of course gossip. Most of those reasons can be difficult to predict, so you have to deal with them when they come. And, of course, everyone has their own methods of dealing with them. Most of these can be solved(or at least helped) by giving members the information they need and going from there. If I'm setting a bad example, I'd make it a point to set a better example. If others are setting a bad example, I'd tell them to set a better example else they'll be placed in a lower rank, and no one wants to lose their high rank. Unfortunately nothing can really be done with gossip. Put a group of people together and they will gossip, no matter what you may do to stop it. The only thing you can do is dispel any rumours that start with, again, information.

Now, I'm not saying you have to give everyone all the information. Some things are better kept "secret". All I'm saying is give members the information they need to make a decision, and if you choose to keep some information private, it's probably best to keep it private unless sharing it becomes necessary. That probably didn't make much sense, and if I can think of a way to make it clearer I'll edit XD

Steeps wrote:I would also avoid creating packs that begin with several leaders that are pre-chosen good friends. This may sound strange, but from experience, leaders that were chosen along with everyone else through fair trial and experience often turn out to be more loyal and directed than the members you already 'know and trust' beforehand. When a pack starts out, only the leader truly knows what he or she wants from thier pack. When several people try to lead a new pack at once, conflicting ideas and opinions cross, and everything takes longer to decide, sometime leading to the early closure of what could have been a great pack. Having one overall leader calling the shots (with the suggestions of others to simply guide) is a much more effective, drama-free way to mamage a pack.
Interesting. Personally, I'd prefer to lead a pack with one close friend than several friends, or people I don't know that well. However, I do have some pretty bad trust issues, so choosing someone I don't completely trust would probably end in drama, simply because I don't trust them and I'm afraid they'll betray me somehow. I do like having a second leader though - two leaders can mean more ideas, and can also keep each other in check so they don't do anything too crazy. I do agree with you that one leader is more drama-free, though.
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