To kick or not to kick?

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To kick or not to kick?

Post by Pepper » Mon Dec 26, 2016 2:19 pm

Hi all, there have been lots of discussions about kicking already but I thought it might be helpful to review our evolving thinking about kicking in public games in this separate thread.

The game host can kick a player out of a game if the player is breaking rules or being really obnoxious. Currently, a kicked player cannot return to that game (because obnoxious players were being even more obnoxious by returning over and over again). We also now have a kicking tracking system to keep hosts from excessively kicking (because some hosts were kicking willy nilly and so creating new problems). Now, when we see excessive kicking, we will check in with them and may put restrictions on that player's account.

Every time you sign into multiplayer, you agree to the rules which includes: No excessive kicking, or saving spaces for friends in public games.

Please report when you kick...
If a player in your game is breaking rules or being inappropriate, please warn them in chat to stop the behavior. If they persist (before you kick them and documenting in chat) use the in-game report function (in Pack Stats) so we can see their behavior and take appropriate action.

Just remember, kicking is not to be used in public games to:
  • save spots for friends.
    enforce certain types of roleplay (You can’t say “We are roleplaying as dragons and you are being a wolf– so I am kicking you.”)
    to manage the chat level or level of players. (You can’t say, “You aren’t being literate enough so I am kicking you.” or “You are too new, I am kicking you."
Private games are great!
Private games are the way to go if you want only certain players or only players who play in a certain way. I see a lot of reports where it is clear that players are not enjoying each other's style of playing. My advice is that when you find people with whom you are compatible, friend them so you can play private games in peace.

Do you have some general questions about kicking? Ask away!
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Re: To kick or not to kick?

Post by SolitaryHowl » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:52 am

Interesting, thanks for clearing things up Pepper!
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Re: To kick or not to kick?

Post by Xela Winchester » Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:52 am

I have returned with a question!

Let's say Player A makes a server for roleplaying.
Well, Player B and Player C enter along with a couple more. Everyone else is roleplaying except for B and C, who are either idling silently or simply off-topic about something else.

My question is: is Player A, the host, allowed to kick those two players for not participating, as they're taking up spots in the server that could be filled with players who actually want to RP?
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Re: To kick or not to kick?

Post by Pepper » Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:19 pm

Xela Winchester wrote:
I have returned with a question!

Let's say Player A makes a server for roleplaying.
Well, Player B and Player C enter along with a couple more. Everyone else is roleplaying except for B and C, who are either idling silently or simply off-topic about something else.

My question is: is Player A, the host, allowed to kick those two players for not participating, as they're taking up spots in the server that could be filled with players who actually want to RP?
When to kick and when not to kick is something every host has to think about. Kicking should be reserved for people breaking the rules ore really being obnoxious. And remember, if you kick three people in a game, no new players can join in. Kicking isn't meant to be used to control gameplay.

If you decide to host a public game, you should be open to all sorts of players joining. You can name your game to attract the types of players you would like, but you can't control that. One would hope "advanced-wolf-RP" would not attract someone looking to chat and be silly. But a large group of people rarely have playing styles that are a perfect match (there are always a few yahoos). If you find yourself in a public game with players that aren't following the game goals,you can ask them politely to join in. Or you can ignore them. But if you really want a more organized game, then a private game is the way to go.
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Re: To kick or not to kick?

Post by Xela Winchester » Sun Jan 08, 2017 3:41 pm

Pepper wrote:
Xela Winchester wrote:
I have returned with a question!

Let's say Player A makes a server for roleplaying.
Well, Player B and Player C enter along with a couple more. Everyone else is roleplaying except for B and C, who are either idling silently or simply off-topic about something else.

My question is: is Player A, the host, allowed to kick those two players for not participating, as they're taking up spots in the server that could be filled with players who actually want to RP?
When to kick and when not to kick is something every host has to think about. Kicking should be reserved for people breaking the rules ore really being obnoxious. And remember, if you kick three people in a game, no new players can join in. Kicking isn't meant to be used to control gameplay.

If you decide to host a public game, you should be open to all sorts of players joining. You can name your game to attract the types of players you would like, but you can't control that. One would hope "advanced-wolf-RP" would not attract someone looking to chat and be silly. But a large group of people rarely have playing styles that are a perfect match (there are always a few yahoos). If you find yourself in a public game with players that aren't following the game goals,you can ask them politely to join in. Or you can ignore them. But if you really want a more organized game, then a private game is the way to go.
Ah okay, thanks for clearing that up!

And I just realized another solution is to close the chat and restart it; the idling players probably aren't returning to their computers anytime soon. >_<
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Re: To kick or not to kick?

Post by Ecliptic » Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:36 pm

This is a helpful thread, thanks :D .

Just have one question for something that happened to me twice in two separate games (this happened in the coop mode). If I remember correctly, the player was taking our pups and purposefully killing them, dropping them in the river and letting them starve.

Would it be okay to kick that player, since he/she was killing all of our pups, or would that be unnecessary kicking?

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Re: To kick or not to kick?

Post by Pepper » Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:27 pm

Ecliptic wrote:This is a helpful thread, thanks :D .

Just have one question for something that happened to me twice in two separate games (this happened in the coop mode). If I remember correctly, the player was taking our pups and purposefully killing them, dropping them in the river and letting them starve.

Would it be okay to kick that player, since he/she was killing all of our pups, or would that be unnecessary kicking?
That is a perfectly good reason to kick a player. If the host has set up a game for cooperative pup-raising and someone drops into the game to disrupt it by harming the pups, kick away! You might want to tell them to stop and send them a warning first, to make sure it is clear to them. Conversely, if you enter a game where players are having a good ol' time drowning pups and that IS the gameplay, you shouldn't berate them or report them (unless they are breaking rules)...just leave and find a more compatible group of players.
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Re: To kick or not to kick?

Post by Skulleh » Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:27 pm

So uh... what if you make a game centered around hunting and using pack rallies etc, but there's this one person that just refuses to rally and ruins it for everyone else? Like you're tryna do a pack rally for the strength bonus, but the person just... doesn't even try to join in. Just sits there, no bow, no howl, no nothing...

Is it okay to kick them then???? Bc like it's annoying to deal with one person who just ruins the rallies for everyone else, even after multiple warnings. :/

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Re: To kick or not to kick?

Post by Koa » Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:36 pm

Skulleh wrote:So uh... what if you make a game centered around hunting and using pack rallies etc, but there's this one person that just refuses to rally and ruins it for everyone else? Like you're tryna do a pack rally for the strength bonus, but the person just... doesn't even try to join in. Just sits there, no bow, no howl, no nothing...

Is it okay to kick them then???? Bc like it's annoying to deal with one person who just ruins the rallies for everyone else, even after multiple warnings. :/
Was the person conversing at all? There could have been a connection error of some kind and the individual wasn't seeing your messages or was about to be disconnected.

If they were conversing, were clearly active/present in the game, but openly refused to rally, and rallying/hunting was the purpose of your game, I'd say it would be safe to kick them since their actions would be affecting your actual gameplay.
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Re: To kick or not to kick?

Post by ChillyTiger9807 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:04 pm

Hi! I and several of my friends have recently encountered what we consider a huge setback due to the new kicking system, and we're looking for some help.

Due to the new ranking system, many of us are trying to gain our way to Pack Elder, and we do so by hosting Hunting servers. Now, we are VERY open to everyone joining - and if they join looking for a roleplay or something off topic, we do not kick at all, as they usually just leave after we inform them they may want to look somewhere else. However, we have had SEVERAL people in only just the past few days join our server and then sit there, AFK, for literal HOURS. They are active and present for the first little while, and then eventually they go AFK for their own reasons and never come back.

My concern is not that this is "taking up space for other players", as people come and go and we manage hunting even just by ourselves. My (and my friends') concerns are that we are getting "penalized" for kicking these players. All of us have the same issue when we host our servers - if we try to kick an AFK player so we can rally for moose (since you can't rally without everyone there), it will not remove them from the game. If we try kicking them again, it uses up all of our "3 people per game" limit and then no new players can join - and the AFK player is STILL there, and we are STILL unable to rally. Our only solution at this point is to rehost the server, but it often happens again. And we WOULD use a private game, except not everyone is on at the same time and it's nice to meet new people.

My friends and I would like to know (since I saw in an earlier thread that kicking for this reason is acceptable) why these people aren't being removed from the server when we kick (and why it uses up the rest of the kicks when we try again), and what we can do alternatively? We would hate to stop having to use public games as, like I said, not all of the same people for the private game will always be on to hunt and we like making friends and being open to the community.

Some solutions I have to offer for this problem are that rallying not require everyone in the server, but rather an average (majority) or even just the wolves in the proximity of the original howler, or even that there be an idle timer for AFK people, so if they're idle too long they time out of the server.


UPDATE: After posting this topic I went to join a new game, and found that my server (that I had just left and WAS the host of) was still up. It still had my name as the host. When I entered, the AFK person was the only one there, and even after closing out of WQ AND Steam and restarting, she's still the only one in there.

UPDATE #2: The game is still up 4 hours later (even though I've been playing in other servers), and the same person is still in it. My friends and I are now concerned that they somehow have the host abilities, and I'm afraid to join and kick them (because I'll get in trouble for kicking them), and I'm beginning to be concerned as to the safety of my computer, as I have no idea why this is happening. I don't want to report the game as I don't know who will see this and when and I don't want to get into trouble. If this is all because of the new change in the kicking policy, I'm not inclined to play public servers anymore.

UPDATE #3: I'm not sure if I should move this to another forum topic at this point (sorry for breaking any rules), but I just joined the server again and found that though it names me as the host on the lobby and I was the original creator of the game, that the player is now the leader of the server. I have screenshots of everything, and I'm becoming more concerned. I reported them in-game but I don't know what to do at this point.

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Re: To kick or not to kick?

Post by Neamara » Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:59 pm

ChillyTiger9807 wrote:UPDATE: After posting this topic I went to join a new game, and found that my server (that I had just left and WAS the host of) was still up. It still had my name as the host. When I entered, the AFK person was the only one there, and even after closing out of WQ AND Steam and restarting, she's still the only one in there.

UPDATE #2: The game is still up 4 hours later (even though I've been playing in other servers), and the same person is still in it. My friends and I are now concerned that they somehow have the host abilities, and I'm afraid to join and kick them (because I'll get in trouble for kicking them), and I'm beginning to be concerned as to the safety of my computer, as I have no idea why this is happening. I don't want to report the game as I don't know who will see this and when and I don't want to get into trouble. If this is all because of the new change in the kicking policy, I'm not inclined to play public servers anymore.

UPDATE #3: I'm not sure if I should move this to another forum topic at this point (sorry for breaking any rules), but I just joined the server again and found that though it names me as the host on the lobby and I was the original creator of the game, that the player is now the leader of the server. I have screenshots of everything, and I'm becoming more concerned. I reported them in-game but I don't know what to do at this point.
This weird "ghost session" bug is nothing new, although it is a strange one that apparently pops up from time to time and appears to defy the team's best efforts to fix it... this is the third or fourth time I've read it. Rest assured that you are not in any trouble, you are not breaking any rules, your computer is in no way compromised as a result of this glitch, and that your account is safe. Please submit a bug report with as much information that you are able to provide to help the developers' investigation. Thank you.
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Re: To kick or not to kick?

Post by Arcturus221B » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:26 am

After reading the answers in this topic, I'm starting to doubt myself about something so it would be nice if you could clarify.

Quite often when you're in a pup raising game, people start claiming pups as theirs, meaning you're not allowed to touch it or even feed it. Not much of an issue if there's only 4 spots and you can take the pup nobody claimed yet, but this isn't often the case, neither is it stated that this is intended gameplay when you join as people often start claiming pups as soon as the journey mission comes along—sometimes they don't even mention it at all and just do it. So there you are, picking up a pup and carrying it to the rendezvous, when somebody starts growling at you and orders you to drop the pup because it's theirs. In my personal opinion this is pretty stupid, because it's a public game so everybody should be allowed to carry every pup and take care of them, unless it's stated when you join or it's in the server name, then sure I'll just leave. So my question is: are people allowed to kick you from a public game simply because you're carrying a pup they claimed? Even if you're the 5th person there and are just trying to help?
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Re: To kick or not to kick?

Post by Pepper » Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:29 pm

Arcturus221B wrote:After reading the answers in this topic, I'm starting to doubt myself about something so it would be nice if you could clarify.

Quite often when you're in a pup raising game, people start claiming pups as theirs, meaning you're not allowed to touch it or even feed it. Not much of an issue if there's only 4 spots and you can take the pup nobody claimed yet, but this isn't often the case, neither is it stated that this is intended gameplay when you join as people often start claiming pups as soon as the journey mission comes along—sometimes they don't even mention it at all and just do it. So there you are, picking up a pup and carrying it to the rendezvous, when somebody starts growling at you and orders you to drop the pup because it's theirs. In my personal opinion this is pretty stupid, because it's a public game so everybody should be allowed to carry every pup and take care of them, unless it's stated when you join or it's in the server name, then sure I'll just leave. So my question is: are people allowed to kick you from a public game simply because you're carrying a pup they claimed? Even if you're the 5th person there and are just trying to help?
I understand why you are frustrated if that sort of gameplay is not what you are looking for when you enter a public game. Negotiating the roleplay parameters is a tricky business and a good host will do so clearly and politely. Finding compatible players is the eternal challenge of public multiplayer games. (If you do find players you like playing with, be sure to friend them so you can play private games.) You are correct that a host should not kick a player who is not following the roleplay if that players is following the rules and is not disrupting the game. I completely agree that claiming a pup is not much fun for the group and is also not how wolves do it in the wild. But there are all sorts of ways to play the game and people seem to find like-minded players eventually. As a player, you are probably going to to be happier leaving a game and/or hosting your own game than trying to change the gameplay that you describe.

We do track and deal with excessive kickers and here is what we say to hosts who seem to be using kicking inappropriately:

Please remember that kicking is to be used only for offensive or inappropriate players. If such a player joins your game, please warn them, and if they persist (before you kick them) use the in-game report function (in Pack Stats) so we can see their behavior and take appropriate action.

Remember, kicking is not to be used in public games to:

  • save spots for friends.
    enforce certain types of roleplay (You can't say "We are roleplaying as dragons and you are being a wolf– so I am kicking you.")
    to manage the chat level or level of players. (You can't say, "You aren't being literate enough so I am kicking you." or "You are too new, I am kicking you."


Private games are the way to go if you want only certain players or only players who play in a certain way.

If we continue to see excessive kicking, we will put restrictions on your account.
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Re: To kick or not to kick?

Post by Pepper » Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:52 pm

Improved Kick Tracking System
You all will be delighted to hear that we have improved our kick tracking system even more than before. Now we can identify excessive kickers more easily and track them within the abuse report system, giving us a more wholistic view of a player's behavior.

The good news for players is that you all don't need to do anything–– no need to submit a report or email us about kicking. We check the kicks regularly, can see the stats, and are dealing with problem hosts as we see them.

More good news is that we can already see that excessive kicking is actually not a huge problem. We know that it might feel like it is if you get kicked from game(s). But, other than a few players, most hosts seem to be kicking judiciously.

Because we can't seem to say this enough:


Hosts need to remember that kicking is to be used only for offensive or inappropriate players. If such a player joins your game, please warn them, and if they persist (before you kick them) use the in-game report function (in Pack Stats) so we can see their behavior and take appropriate action.

Remember, kicking is not to be used in public games to:
  • * save spots for friends.
    * enforce certain types of roleplay (You can't say "We are roleplaying as dragons and you are being a wolf– so I am kicking you.")
    * manage the chat level or level of players. (You can't say, "You aren't being literate enough so I am kicking you." or "You are too new, I am kicking you.)"
Private games are the way to go if you want only certain players or only players who play in a certain way. If see excessive kicking, we will put restrictions on the account.

Can I Kick From Private Games?
A word about private games. The rules are the same as for public games, including kicking. We don't see many reports about private games, presumably because they are groups of friends or people who have agreed to play in a certain style. However, if hosts share their private game passwords widely (which defeats the purpose of private games) and then object to the way people play, there will, no doubt, be conflict and we will then receive reports for private games. Long story, short: If you kick excessively from private games, the consequences are the same.
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Re: To kick or not to kick?

Post by Noctis_ » Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:45 pm

Pepper wrote:Can I Kick From Private Games?
A word about private games. The rules are the same as for public games, including kicking. We don't see many reports about private games, presumably because they are groups of friends or people who have agreed to play in a certain style. However, if hosts share their private game passwords widely (which defeats the purpose of private games) and then object to the way people play, there will, no doubt, be conflict and we will then receive reports for private games. Long story, short: If you kick excessively from private games, the consequences are the same.
This hasn't ever been an issue before, but regarding private games (since this would be useful information for future reference): Say I host a private game and share the password with a few people. However, without my permission, those people then share the password with other players, who then join the private game as well. Is it within the rules to kick those people, since I never issued them the password?
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