Croping and dcoking.

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Croping and dcoking.

Post by Asheek » Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:47 pm

If this is in the wrong area please move it.

I recently was talking with a friend about if it's considered abuse to dock a dogs tail and or crop it's ears. If it's a true workind dog I really dont see the harm, especaily considering the damage that can be done to them. However people often simply do poor 'home style' jobs and cut them with a pair of siccors. What do you all think?
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Re: Croping and dcoking.

Post by Koa » Thu Jun 03, 2010 5:25 pm

I will be watching this topic closely..may end up being controversial.

Usually they dock tails on the dogs when they are very young animals from what I know. Done properly, it should not be of any harm to them.
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Re: Croping and dcoking.

Post by Coolwolf1777 » Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:19 pm

I agree Koa. This topic can be very controversial, but, if done properly and humanely it can be benificial to the dog for sanitation reasons. Pretty much the same reasons why they dock a sheep's tail to (sorry if this is gross) keep fecal material away from the coat and prevent infections. However, as I am trying to remain biased it can CAUSE infection if cropped or docked improperly with scissors to the ears or rubber bands to the tail which can cause infections, growth defects, and possibly death from the spread of infections such as gangreene. I am interested in the opinions on this topic particularily because my dogs tails have been docked below the fourth vertebrae.
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Re: Croping and dcoking.

Post by Yellowie100 » Fri Jun 04, 2010 6:10 pm

Umm....I don't think its abusive if you crop their tails because my dog's tail is cropped because dogs such as Miniature Pinschers, Dobermans and other breeds that have cut tails because they get real long so I personally don't think its abuse. And cropping ears isn't bad unless its for dog fighting. But nice topic ^_^. My dog's original owners said that they cut his tail when he was about a week old but didn't tell us how.

Also, its almost the same as when we get our ears pierced. :) :wink:
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Re: Croping and dcoking.

Post by Asheek » Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:53 pm

Whitewolf700 wrote:Umm....I don't think its abusive if you crop their tails because my dog's tail is cropped because dogs such as Miniature Pinschers, Dobermans and other breeds that have cut tails because they get real long so I personally don't think its abuse. And cropping ears isn't bad unless its for dog fighting. But nice topic ^_^. My dog's original owners said that they cut his tail when he was about a week old but didn't tell us how.

Also, its almost the same as when we get our ears pierced. :) :wink:
Personaly I think it's unnessary unless the dog is going to be out in the field (aka being a working dog and being used for the pourpous it was bred for). Not only that but many vets don't learn how to crop or dock a dogs ears and or tail and 'learn on the job' when asked to do so and dogs sometimes arent put under and sit through it fully awake,( our first dog who died of old OLD age had his tail docked and he was fully awake and it was done at the ve). I learnd that from an AKC judge during a school funded dog program and was amazed. I think that may be a small part of the reason people might do it at home, sure they dont have all the equpment but their just as inexperinced as a vet is and sometimes dont realise it's abuse untill the wound gets infected.
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Re: Croping and dcoking.

Post by SolitaryHowl » Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:18 pm

In addition, docking tails actually increases the chance of fights breaking out with your dog. It practically gets rid of an essential communication mechanism - your dog's tail - and it can be dangerous because the other dogs may misinterpret your dog's actions.
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Re: Croping and dcoking.

Post by Wolf Runner1 » Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:40 pm

Long post coming through. :wink:


I do not agree with docking and cropping. Period. I've been part of a couple of conversations (online and virtual) discussing cropped ears, and people will sometimes say 'It's the same as getting your ears pierced.' I dislike it intensely it when people say this. When people get their ears pierced they choose to do so. I have never heard of an animal that wants pieces of its body removed. >.>


Our family owns a Pembroke Welsh Corgi, whose tail is docked, but almost all Pembrokes come with their tails docked, and it's almost impossible to find one with a tail in the USA. Our whole family wishes our corgi had a tail. Unfortunately, if we wanted a Pembroke Welsh Corgi, with the personality we wanted, we probably would have had to fly to England to get one, where corgis with tails exist.


I personally, believe that crop jobs are done because their owners want them to look ‘tougher,’ ‘cooler,’ meet the breed standard or because they think it looks ‘cute.’ I believe that docking is done because people don’t like dogs tails when they wag them and knock things over, or again, so the dogs meet their breed standard. I have heard people say that they are glad their dogs tails are docked, so they can still put out their nick-knacks on their coffee tables. I think that’s sick. The dog wants to communicate joy through its tail, but people cut them off! The same thing goes for ears.

So, I have stated my opinion. Sorry for the rant, but I find this a sensitive subject. >.<
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Re: Croping and dcoking.

Post by Asheek » Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:33 pm

Wolf Runner1 wrote:Long post coming through. :wink:


I do not agree with docking and cropping. Period. I've been part of a couple of conversations (online and virtual) discussing cropped ears, and people will sometimes say 'It's the same as getting your ears pierced.' I dislike it intensely it when people say this. When people get their ears pierced they choose to do so. I have never heard of an animal that wants pieces of its body removed. >.>


Our family owns a Pembroke Welsh Corgi, whose tail is docked, but almost all Pembrokes come with their tails docked, and it's almost impossible to find one with a tail in the USA. Our whole family wishes our corgi had a tail. Unfortunately, if we wanted a Pembroke Welsh Corgi, with the personality we wanted, we probably would have had to fly to England to get one, where corgis with tails exist.


I personally, believe that crop jobs are done because their owners want them to look ‘tougher,’ ‘cooler,’ meet the breed standard or because they think it looks ‘cute.’ I believe that docking is done because people don’t like dogs tails when they wag them and knock things over, or again, so the dogs meet their breed standard. I have heard people say that they are glad their dogs tails are docked, so they can still put out their nick-knacks on their coffee tables. I think that’s sick. The dog wants to communicate joy through its tail, but people cut them off! The same thing goes for ears.

So, I have stated my opinion. Sorry for the rant, but I find this a sensitive subject. >.<

Oh I agree with you. The only time I have ever accepted it is with dogs that are trained to take down wild boars in heavily infested areas, where their ears and or tails could be mangled by the animal they are hunting.
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Re: Croping and dcoking.

Post by Yellowie100 » Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:20 pm

Asheek wrote:
Wolf Runner1 wrote:Long post coming through. :wink:


I do not agree with docking and cropping. Period. I've been part of a couple of conversations (online and virtual) discussing cropped ears, and people will sometimes say 'It's the same as getting your ears pierced.' I dislike it intensely it when people say this. When people get their ears pierced they choose to do so. I have never heard of an animal that wants pieces of its body removed. >.>


Our family owns a Pembroke Welsh Corgi, whose tail is docked, but almost all Pembrokes come with their tails docked, and it's almost impossible to find one with a tail in the USA. Our whole family wishes our corgi had a tail. Unfortunately, if we wanted a Pembroke Welsh Corgi, with the personality we wanted, we probably would have had to fly to England to get one, where corgis with tails exist.


I personally, believe that crop jobs are done because their owners want them to look ‘tougher,’ ‘cooler,’ meet the breed standard or because they think it looks ‘cute.’ I believe that docking is done because people don’t like dogs tails when they wag them and knock things over, or again, so the dogs meet their breed standard. I have heard people say that they are glad their dogs tails are docked, so they can still put out their nick-knacks on their coffee tables. I think that’s sick. The dog wants to communicate joy through its tail, but people cut them off! The same thing goes for ears.

So, I have stated my opinion. Sorry for the rant, but I find this a sensitive subject. >.<

Oh I agree with you. The only time I have ever accepted it is with dogs that are trained to take down wild boars in heavily infested areas, where their ears and or tails could be mangled by the animal they are hunting.
My dog doesn't care much for his little stub anymore. He just licks it. And wags it. And I agree with you about the looking tougher, cooler, and cute part. But we didn't dock our dogs tail. The breeders did. (Don't worry they are good breeders, even have a web site and we met them). I'm so glad my dogs ears aren't cropped too. And I think they made a mistake because he has a bald spot on his tail -_-

A few Dogs that get docked and cropped
Boxers
Miniature Pinscher
Pit Bulls
Jack Russel Terriers (I think so)
Dobermans
Rotties (Rottweiler or however you spell it)
Corgi

I'm in the middle of agreeing with cropping and docked and not. Because most people say they get LONG tails so they cut them and even slap them in the face sometimes (the tails slap the owners in the face), which I understand. But at the same time no because people cut them off to dog fight or do bad things with them....so I'm in the middle.
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Re: Croping and dcoking.

Post by Wolf Runner1 » Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:41 pm

Whitewolf700 wrote:I'm in the middle of agreeing with cropping and docked and not. Because most people say they get LONG tails so they cut them and even slap them in the face sometimes (the tails slap the owners in the face), which I understand. But at the same time no because people cut them off to dog fight or do bad things with them....so I'm in the middle.
I have to say, if the person's getting slapped by the dogs tail, then the person should move their face, not cut the poor dogs tail off! That's an overreaction I say.

Example: If person 1. got hit because person 2. was happy, (say person 2. hits person 1. trying to give person 1. a high five and missed,) no one would even consider removing person 2.’s hand! because it’s barbaric.

Personally, I love being hit in the face by our golden’s tail. =D It shows how happy she is, and if I don't like it then I move. :wink:
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Re: Croping and dcoking.

Post by Yellowie100 » Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:47 pm

Yes, it is indeed overreacting and it is a little of a bad reason to slice off a perfectly good tail (Oh noes!).
Seriously, move your face,
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Re: Croping and dcoking.

Post by Asheek » Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:19 pm

I sware one day my dog is gonna break hers. She wags it so much and always bangs it agains hard things lol.
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Re: Croping and dcoking.

Post by Kivia » Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:30 pm

Hmm, I'm not necessarily sure where I stand on the topic when it comes to docking, though I'm really not for it unless necessary. My newest dog who is an Australian Shepherd got his tail docked immediately after birth since that's just how it is for that breed; they can either have docked or naturally bobbed tails. If he were to go into show or become a working dog, he would have to have the bob. If he were a natural bob though, then there would be an increase of spinal defects, so docking is actually better than the natural bob. I still wish he didn't have a docked tail, but it would be impossible to find a single Aussie who didn't have a bob.
So don't get me wrong, I love tails^^ I have a Golden Retriever mix as well with a pretty tail, it's just that my Aussie came with a docked tail.

Cropping though is done just for the sake of cosmetics; it doesn't help the dog in any way.

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Re: Croping and dcoking.

Post by Mystic3170 » Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:12 pm

Kivia wrote:Hmm, I'm not necessarily sure where I stand on the topic when it comes to docking, though I'm really not for it unless necessary. My newest dog who is an Australian Shepherd got his tail docked immediately after birth since that's just how it is for that breed; they can either have docked or naturally bobbed tails. If he were to go into show or become a working dog, he would have to have the bob. If he were a natural bob though, then there would be an increase of spinal defects, so docking is actually better than the natural bob. I still wish he didn't have a docked tail, but it would be impossible to find a single Aussie who didn't have a bob.
So don't get me wrong, I love tails^^ I have a Golden Retriever mix as well with a pretty tail, it's just that my Aussie came with a docked tail.

Cropping though is done just for the sake of cosmetics; it doesn't help the dog in any way.
I have an Australian Shepherd as well. :) Almost all Aussies have their tails docked just after birth. A docked tail is actually, I believe, part of the AKC (American Kennel Club) standard for Australian Shepherds. Like Kivia said, their tails are docked to prevent spinal issues that come with a naturally bobbed tail. It's done humanely and the dogs feel no pain.

The reason the dogs tails' are docked is not because people are annoyed when their tails wag, it's because some dogs (such as Australian Shepherds) are believed to have better balance and stance without a tail. Also, Aussies are herding dogs, and most farmers just don't have the time to spend two hours brushing and cutting mats out of their dog's tail, especially if they have more than one dog, which many farmers do.

So personally, I feel that docking is fine when done humanely.
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Re: Croping and dcoking.

Post by Wolf Runner1 » Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:43 pm

Mystic3170 wrote:
Kivia wrote:Hmm, I'm not necessarily sure where I stand on the topic when it comes to docking, though I'm really not for it unless necessary. My newest dog who is an Australian Shepherd got his tail docked immediately after birth since that's just how it is for that breed; they can either have docked or naturally bobbed tails. If he were to go into show or become a working dog, he would have to have the bob. If he were a natural bob though, then there would be an increase of spinal defects, so docking is actually better than the natural bob. I still wish he didn't have a docked tail, but it would be impossible to find a single Aussie who didn't have a bob.
So don't get me wrong, I love tails^^ I have a Golden Retriever mix as well with a pretty tail, it's just that my Aussie came with a docked tail.

Cropping though is done just for the sake of cosmetics; it doesn't help the dog in any way.
I have an Australian Shepherd as well. :) Almost all Aussies have their tails docked just after birth. A docked tail is actually, I believe, part of the AKC (American Kennel Club) standard for Australian Shepherds. Like Kivia said, their tails are docked to prevent spinal issues that come with a naturally bobbed tail. It's done humanely and the dogs feel no pain.

The reason the dogs tails' are docked is not because people are annoyed when their tails wag, it's because some dogs (such as Australian Shepherds) are believed to have better balance and stance without a tail. Also, Aussies are herding dogs, and most farmers just don't have the time to spend two hours brushing and cutting mats out of their dog's tail, especially if they have more than one dog, which many farmers do.

So personally, I feel that docking is fine when done humanely.

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My uncle lives on a working farm with two working border collies. (Here’s a picture in case you’re not familiar with the breed: http://www.greatdogsite.com/resources/p ... 796345.jpg ) As you can see, they have long, fluffy fur, and it does not hinder them at all. My uncle doesn’t spend hours cutting mats out of his dogs tail, at all. When they get mats, they tend to get them behind the ears, and it doesn’t take that long to go through with scissors and cut the mats out. Besides, if a dog is going to get mats on their tail, there are probably going to get them elsewhere as well, and you aren’t going to be able to stop it, short of shaving them.

Dogs tails actually give the dogs better balance, when they make turns quickly. Sort of like your toes, or a fishes fins, so the whole ‘stance & balance’ doesn’t make sense to me.

Also, I would like a couple references to reputable sites that say that a Australian Shepherd’s tail can cause spinal issues. I have a hard time buying that, actually.

About the AKC standard of perfection: I love AKC, and admire their standards, in most cases. However, just because something is main stream, doesn’t mean you should say it’s okay, or good.

Please reply back, I’m curious about your opinions. :wink:

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