The importance of Hunting

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Re: The importance of Hunting

Post by Wolvencall » Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:05 pm

HunterStrait wrote:Hunting ain't animal abuse. To tell you right now, its better than what happens at farms.
Deer,Small game(squirrels,mourning doves, rabbits),upland game(Pheasants, chucker), cougars, mountain goats, wolves, coyotes and many more animals are legally hunted during a time in the year where the animal is not raising young or birthing young.
The deer season as example is set on the mating season, or the rut.
Hunters are allowed a limited amount of game per year depending on the state or region.
The benefit of what a hunter can get out of an animal is the meat, antlers(deer, moose), bones(skulls), and fur.
And there's a lot more compassion in hunting than what happens at a farm.
Overpopulation=more to your limit
A good example is in the eastern part of the united states, where deer populations are high.
Hunters can harvest multiple deer in areas where there are surplus deer, and when there's not a lot, the hunter can only harvest one or two.
Predatory animals cannot control this by themselves in regions like this.
And when they're are little prey and a lot of predators, some animals need to be culled.
Wolves in Washington state have been causing damage to many species by surplus killing.
In Idaho 176 sheep were killed by a pack of wolves and left to waste.
Therefore, the pack was culled.
Its important to think before you talk.
Honestly most wolves do not purposely 'surplus kill'. People usually happen upon the wolves and they run away refusing to return in fear of humans. There is also the problem with the domesticated animals 'predator plan'. With bison and elk, they have a plan, they stand their ground and group together while livestock run away causing the switch in the wolves mind to go off to chase and kill. Those animals that run instinctively alert the wolves that they are weaker and thus fair an safe game. If people could retrain or somehow breed this instinct back into the livestock i believe that this would help the animals substantially, along with bringing in guard dogs or donkeys and alpacas. I do admit that people do help to reduce overpopulated species but most people go after the good genetics in the herd, you know what i mean, the bulls with the big racks. This gives other bulls that wouldn't usually mate, the ability to do so, thus weakening the genetics of the population.

Edit
Chumpkins_ wrote:Too much of anything isn't a good thing. If there were too many wolves, not enough prey, the prey might literally be derived out of the area. It's good to have the population managed, also, don't base your knowledge off of encyclopedias or online, as they may have outdated or false information.
if there is less prey wolves will disperse by themselves and shift territories to look elsewhere, they don't have set homes besides during the spring when they are raising their children. There is also the fact that right now, wolves are having a hard time managing the overpopulated herds but you can bet they are healthy herds as wolves root out the weakest animals. This may be because many of the predators are so few and they usually only kill what they need. In other states where large apex predators are not present, due to humans as they culled and drove the larger predators out of many states, the herbivorous populations are large and thus need help with control due to a lack of a natural predator aside from the occasional coyote pack.
Last edited by Wolvencall on Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The importance of Hunting

Post by valkea » Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:14 pm

Please do not double post, Wolvencall. If you have something to add, edit your previous post instead.
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Re: The importance of Hunting

Post by Koa » Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:05 pm

Wolvencall wrote:
Honestly most wolves do not purposely 'surplus kill'. ... There is also the problem with the domesticated animals 'predator plan'. With bison and elk, they have a plan, they stand their ground and group together while livestock run away causing the switch in the wolves mind to go off to chase and kill. Those animals that run instinctively alert the wolves that they are weaker and thus fair an safe game. If people could retrain or somehow breed this instinct back into the livestock i believe that this would help the animals substantially, along with bringing in guard dogs or donkeys and alpacas. I do admit that people do help to reduce overpopulated species but most people go after the good genetics in the herd, you know what i mean, the bulls with the big racks. This gives other bulls that wouldn't usually mate, the ability to do so, thus weakening the genetics of the population.
.
As I mentioned in the other thread, wolves can and will surplus kill.
A point which should be stressed is "wolves kill for the sake of killing," not just to survive. Many are convinced wolves kill only what they need to eat. That simply isn't true.

Remember the moose with brain worm the wolves didn't eat? In the same area, the same winter and only a couple of months later, the same Conservation Officer followed two wolves after a spring snow storm and found the wolves had killed 21 deer. Only two were partially eaten.

The snow gave the wolves the advantage. These deer were autopsied and many were found to be pregnant. The total number of deer killed in 2 days by these 2 wolves was 36.

Such incidents of surplus killing are common. For example, Canadian biologists came upon an area where a pack of wolves have killed 34 caribou calves in one area. Another example came from Alaska. In the Wrangell Mountains, a pack of five wolves came upon 20 Dall rams crossing a snow-covered plateau. All 20 rams were killed by the wolves. Only six were partially eaten by the wolves.
http://www.aws.vcn.com/wolves_and_hunting.html

More on the incident with the caribou calves:
Once wolves find a calving ground, especially if it is during the early stages of calving, they sometimes kill as many calves as they can. Miller et al. (1985) documented a wolf in mid-June killing three calves on a single occasion and possibly four on another (accounts 34 and 35). The average kill rates during these observations were one calf/minute and one calf/8 min, respectively. The observers found 34 wolf-killed calves in a 3 km^2 area that apparently had been killed within the previous 24 hr, probably within minutes of each other based on post-mortem exams. This find became one of the classical cases of claimed surplus killing (discussed in chap. 9). It is notable that the workers also located two calves that had been stillborn and two that had been born prematurely. This latter observation suggests the possibility that some of the 34 wolf-killed carcasses were also those of markedly inferior individuals.
Wolves on the Hunt: The Behavior of Wolves Hunting Wild Prey, page 59

Wolves also engage in mass (surplus) killing of livestock. Wolves slaughtered 120 registered rams one night on a farm near Dillon, Montana. ^8 Wanton slaughters like this occur wherever wolves are found. In July 2011 in France, one wolf killed 10 sheep and sent 62 of the panicked animals plunging off a cliff; 30 more from the same flock went missing in the woods. ^9
On August 17, 2013, the Siddoway Sheep Company suffered a substantial loss when the Pine Creek wolf pack attacked a band of sheep on Siddoway’s summer allotment six miles south of Victor, Idaho. Idaho Wildlife Services confirmed the kill on August 18. The August 17 wolf attack resulted in the greatest loss of livestock to wolves ever recorded in a single incident in Idaho, surpassing an attack that resulted in 105 sheep killed in a single attack 10 years earlier. A total of 176 sheep— 119 lambs and 57 ewes— were killed; many of the animals died from suffocation as some apparently fell in front of the rest, resulting in a large pile-up. Only the hindquarters of one lamb was eaten by the wolves. ^10
The Real Wolf: The Science, Politics, and Economics of Co-Existing with Wolves in Modern Times, page 164

It''s not that easy just to "breed back" (?) some instinct into an animal. I'm no science major, but they're domesticated for a reason. Domestication, for one thing, occurs over an extended period of time. (I don't think that is something that can be easily undone, but I wouldn't be able to explain it to you very well.)
Wolvencall wrote:People usually happen upon the wolves and they run away refusing to return in fear of humans.
Blightwolf wrote:
Are wolves dangerous to people?


Generally, healthy wild wolves do not pose danger or threat to humans, as they are timid and reclusive by nature, and typically avoid people and human settlements. BUT! There are several well-documented accounts of healthy wild wolves attacking people in North America, and although there were no witnesses, a 2007 inquest determined that a young man killed in northern Saskatchewan in 2005 died as a result of a wolf attack, and an Alaskan woman died in March 2010 also due to a wolf attack. Accounts of wolves killing people persist in India and in Russia and parts of central Asia. It is a fact that when wild animals become habituated to people, they may lose their fear of humans, especially if they are fed or if they associate humans with providing food. Like any large predator, wolves are perfectly capable of killing people. No one should ever encourage a wolf or any other wild animal to approach, and hikers and campers should take all necessary precautions to prevent mishaps involving wildlife.
http://wolfquest.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=34625


Wolvencall wrote:if there is less prey wolves will disperse by themselves and shift territories to look elsewhere, they don't have set homes besides during the spring when they are raising their children. There is also the fact that right now, wolves are having a hard time managing the overpopulated herds but you can bet they are healthy herds as wolves root out the weakest animals. This may be because many of the predators are so few and they usually only kill what they need. In other states where large apex predators are not present, due to humans as they culled and drove the larger predators out of many states, the herbivorous populations are large and thus need help with control due to a lack of a natural predator aside from the occasional coyote pack
Again, see the information I provided about surplus killing. Thought I'd clear that up.

To bring this back on topic (and to comment on your comment about humans helping to reduce populations), indeed -- human interference is necessary with overpopulated animals, and also animals that prove to be a problem. Wolves that surplus kill livestock, in particular, need to be taken care of. They do surplus kill, and are not exempt from the consequences of doing so.
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Re: The importance of Hunting

Post by sparky_wolf » Fri Oct 16, 2015 5:06 am

I thought I'd breathe some life back into this topic as I feel very positive about hunting and the reasoning behind it.

I recently learned that not only Australia has a feral pig problem; the UK and America are also affected by this animal. Feral pigs present both an agricultural and environmental problem. Environmental damage caused by the pigs includes trampling, consumption and uprooting of native vegetation, habitat destruction through erosion and damage to animal sites, competing with and preying on native wildlife and their eggs/young, and much more. Agricultural damage includes grazing, destruction and wallowing of pasture and competing with and preying on livestock and their young (feral pigs will attack, kill and consume lambs). Feral pigs also often consume weeds and are capable of spreading them through roaming and faeces. Additionally, pigs are capable of transmitting leptospirosis, brucellosis and melloidosis.

There are several control methods that can be utilised when attempting to control feral pig population numbers, yet the common denominator between them all is that they are all
humane. These methods include usage of sodium fluoroacetate (also known as '1080') as bait, live-trapping, fencing (generally ineffective, particularly if the pigs have already habituated to the fenced-off prey/plant items) and shooting (aerial or ground).
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Re: The importance of Hunting

Post by Stang » Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:51 pm

Unfortunately not a topic that everyone probably will ever see eye to eye on. People's opinions can change over time though. I used to think I'd never hunt as a kid and kill an animal.

I believe hunting for food is essential and far more humane than animals raised on factory farms. The animals who are hunted lived a life of freedom and died on their homelands. They weren't shipped off to slaughter. In most cases it is fair game, and they have a chance to escape and evade the hunter. The same is not said of farming, most are were born, raised, and destined to end up on someone's dinner plate.

With that said I don't think all farming is bad either. Free range, grass fed, and humanely treated farm animals is alright with me.

Another reason I think hunting is good, the meat is all natural, not filled with things farm animals could have through injections, medications, or through their food. Organic eating pretty much.

Lastly I think it's pretty important in this day an age not to loose touch with more primitive ideals. If Armageddon happened or some world catastrophe came along, knowing to provide for your family or yourself without modern conveniences could mean the difference between life and death. Hunting and gathering was huge for human survival for, it should not be a lost art. There is way more to it that meets the eye.
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Re: The importance of Hunting

Post by XxshadowmysteryxX » Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:23 am

I'm going along with Gleaming. The ecosystem can balance itself out, because of humans we make it somewhat off balance. The deer become over populated because hunters kill they're predators. The deer population becomes smaller because hunters kill them, while the predators reproduce and kill more and more. Humans make everything worse is the honest answer here.
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Re: The importance of Hunting

Post by Sambhur » Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:33 am

XxshadowmysteryxX wrote:I'm going along with Gleaming. The ecosystem can balance itself out, because of humans we make it somewhat off balance. The deer become over populated because hunters kill they're predators. The deer population becomes smaller because hunters kill them, while the predators reproduce and kill more and more. Humans make everything worse is the honest answer here.
But the ecosystem can't balance itself out in all situations, and so humans sometimes still have to intervene to make up for their mistakes, such as killing off members of an introduced species that continually upsets an ecosystem.
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Re: The importance of Hunting

Post by Serperior_123 » Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:16 pm

Here's what I think:

If you don't want to eat meat, then be against hunting.

But, I'm sorry, But meat is a big part of our diet, and humans have been hunting since the dawn of time to survive.

To some extents however, poaching is illegal, so there you go, not many people are hunting cause they want to kill.

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Re: The importance of Hunting

Post by Koa » Thu Dec 10, 2015 9:05 pm

Serperior_123 wrote:Here's what I think:

If you don't want to eat meat, then be against hunting.

But, I'm sorry, But meat is a big part of our diet, and humans have been hunting since the dawn of time to survive.

To some extents however, poaching is illegal, so there you go, not many people are hunting cause they want to kill.
Going to emphasize that hunting is still beneficial if it controls the population or take care a problem animal-- wolves are certainly an example. Not all animals that need to be controlled are "preferred," for lack of a better word, in the realm of dining (although I have no clue if wolf meat is an actual thing or not).
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Re: The importance of Hunting

Post by alethe » Thu Dec 10, 2015 9:47 pm

I think it is, but not common in the states.


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Re: The importance of Hunting

Post by Kivia » Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:32 pm

Woo, let me throw myself into this topic because why not?

If there is anything that I've learned over the past four years majoring in Wildlife Conservation, it's that hunting is an important tool in conservation. One such example is the Federal Duck Stamp here in the US. In order to hunt migratory waterfowl, one must purchase a duck stamp. Nearly all of the profit (I think it's about 98%) from those stamps goes straight to habitat management for wildlife refuges, which support both migratory waterfowl and other wildlife that depend on these habitats. Because of this it is also popular for birders and those wanting to help wildlife to buy the stamps, but the main focus is on hunters.

I know some may be put off by the thought of taking an animal's life, but it's a way of life for many people all over the world. As much as some people want to "save all the animals", you also share the planet with 7 billion other people who need to be taken into consideration.

You may have a few bad apples when it comes to hunters as well, but most hunters that I've met are very passionate about the animals they hunt. It's very respectable.

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Re: The importance of Hunting

Post by duskypack » Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:06 pm

Honestly I prefer wolves or any other animal kept down then spiraling out of control, causing the general public to hate them, endangering the plants and animals they eat and then eating human livestock/crops. Hunting if used rightly is an important tool in conservation, but poaching and even making animals extinct is very serious. So, yes, hunting is important.

To those who argue otherwise, 'Let the animals take care of themselves, Nature will do what it always has' I want to remind you that most animals don't have the habitat they used to. Look at the story of wolves in California: they were pests and got wiped out for a hundred years (it's very sad, but it's not the first time wolves have been eradicated) and then recently returned. Now, they don't have the same habitat as they used to back then so there has to be a lot less of them, especially with their new human neighbors who make a living off of the cattle wolves kill. Since humans have built on parts of their habitat, it's up to humans to control them and to keep the balance in their smaller habitat. If humans are going to keep growing and thriving (which isn't a bad thing at all) then it is our job to keep it balanced, even if we do have to hunt. Besides, even wolves mass-murder and wipe out whole groups of animals with no reason, shouldn't it be okay for us to wipe out a few animals for a good reason?
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Re: The importance of Hunting

Post by Flamesky » Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:44 pm

duskypack wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:06 pm
Besides, even wolves mass-murder and wipe out whole groups of animals with no reason, shouldn't it be okay for us to wipe out a few animals for a good reason?
This is an older post, but I came across it and wanted to clarify something. I'd be careful with using the term "murder" when referring to animals. Surplus killing, also known as the "henhouse syndrome", is predatory behavior, and has an evolutionary explanation. To say that wolves or any other animal "mass-murder" is anthropomorphism. Male lions will kill unrelated cubs in their pride but this is not murder either, it is to ensure the survival of their own genes.

Legal hunting of deer and elk, as long as it is done with respect and fair chase, is often beneficial to the long-term survival of species and their environment. What is not okay is humans "wiping out" an entire population.
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