Animals for science?

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Animals for science?

Post by american hunter1 » Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:24 am

Have you ever had a chick hatching project in your classroom? If you did, or are doing it now, sometimes the chicks will be sold to factories or whatever, where they are either killed for food or to just lay eggs. :(
Keeping them as pets isn't a good idea either.
It can pose health risks to humans, especially KIDS. Many of them are left over summer break in a tiny cage.( I'm not sure if the next part is completely accurate so just gimme a reminder, not a hate, in comments.)
I also think I heard that people kidnapped animals from there home to take them somewhere, inject formaldehyde into them while they are still moving, (which kills them!) And give them to schools where they are told to dissect them. Something was also on the news where someone stole a PREGNANT bulldog from its home. You can ask your principal if you could switch to non kill ways to learn about animals.
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Re: Animals for science?

Post by Kittea » Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:39 am

While my classes have never hatched chickens or ducks like other local schools did, therefore I am not sure what becomes of the chicks. However I would like to point out that health hazards from these hatched birds are rare because they are hatched in the classroom, leaving no chance for the bird to be exposed to any threatening diseases.

Next I assume you are talking about dissections so I'm going to ramble on about that a bit. Dissections are an excellent way to learn about anatomy and being hands on it gives you a real understanding of where organs actually are in many animals as opposed to 2-dimensional images in a textbook or on a projection screen. The animals used for this purpose are lavatory raised and humanely killed to further education. I know that in veterinary schools they use a combination of laboratory animals and donated animals for lab work.

With as much government oversight there is in the education system and how many regulations and laws are involved I highly doubt that kidnapped animals are ever seen in science classrooms.
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Re: Animals for science?

Post by american hunter1 » Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:32 am

CaffeineCollie wrote:While my classes have never hatched chickens or ducks like other local schools did, therefore I am not sure what becomes of the chicks. However I would like to point out that health hazards from these hatched birds are rare because they are hatched in the classroom, leaving no chance for the bird to be exposed to any threatening diseases.

Next I assume you are talking about dissections so I'm going to ramble on about that a bit. Dissections are an excellent way to learn about anatomy and being hands on it gives you a real understanding of where organs actually are in many animals as opposed to 2-dimensional images in a textbook or on a projection screen. The animals used for this purpose are lavatory raised and humanely killed to further education. I know that in veterinary schools they use a combination of laboratory animals and donated animals for lab work.

With as much government oversight there is in the education system and how many regulations and laws are involved I highly doubt that kidnapped animals are ever seen in science classrooms.
Infections with chickens can still happen though.
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Re: Animals for science?

Post by laika_wolf » Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:33 pm

I personally disagree with the use of animals in science, especially dissection, entirely. Although we might like to tell ourselves that these animals are humanely raised and killed, it really isn't so. Here's a video that investigates where animals bred to be killed for dissection come from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hl0UQs8m4p0 Please be aware that it is graphic! But if what the animals endure is too painful to even watch, that's a clear sign that something is wrong. Even if it is more educational for students to use dissection to learn about animals' anatomies, is it really worth it?
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Re: Animals for science?

Post by Sambhur » Tue Jun 09, 2015 3:59 am

laika_wolf wrote:I personally disagree with the use of animals in science, especially dissection, entirely. Although we might like to tell ourselves that these animals are humanely raised and killed, it really isn't so. Here's a video that investigates where animals bred to be killed for dissection come from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hl0UQs8m4p0 Please be aware that it is graphic! But if what the animals endure is too painful to even watch, that's a clear sign that something is wrong. Even if it is more educational for students to use dissection to learn about animals' anatomies, is it really worth it?
I didn't want to comment on this thread but I really want to make sure you're getting your information from the right places! You've made a big mistake here, which is posting a link to a video from PETA. PETA is not for animal welfare, and does way more harm than good. Here's a resource to get you started on why PETA is actually horrible: http://animalwelfarists.tumblr.com/tagged/peta (the posts on this blog are full of links to good sources, so it's pretty easy to trust the information presented there! also go through it at your own risk; might be some nsfw content there). I honestly don't mean to be condescending, but you need to know who you're getting your information from. (: Basically I'm just saying: don't trust anything you see from PETA, please.
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Re: Animals for science?

Post by D0m » Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:21 pm

I keep chickens and many other animals and my dad owned a farm.

So I can tell you truthfully how the stuff for your Biology lessons come about. The things you dissect are normally actually killed in their best interest. Not for sport, in England animals are now killed kindly and quickly without pain.

About chickens:

I am a chicken breeder and know many others and I can tell you most people who keep chickens love their animals. They are kept in large clean cages and are well fed and watered. Many chicks are unfortunately born naturally with deformities in the leg meaning its best for them to get killed. As if a leg deformity is present they cannot live without pain. So many of the ones you eat or dissect were killed in their best interest.

Hope this helps as its from someone in the front line of it all :)


Also, The health problems are not actually to do with health, they are normally when you breathe in the feather dusk which comes off chickens it can cause you to cough, but some people can be mildly allergic. To with I am but it does not cause health problems or risks. I am also only a child and its not harmed me.
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Re: Animals for science?

Post by Nordue » Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:27 pm

  • My gosh, what a flashback! In kindergarden, we did do this. At first my answer was no, but then I remembered! I do not recall what happened to our chicks though actually. I was probably more concerned with nap time at that point in my life. I do remember one died during incubation, and we prayed for it (was a Catholic school).
american hunter1 wrote:sometimes the chicks will be sold to factories or whatever, where they are either killed for food or to just lay eggs. :(
  • That's not so bad. We are recycling them in that sense; first they were used for education, and then for agriculture.
americanhunter1 wrote:I also think I heard that people kidnapped animals from there home to take them somewhere, inject formaldehyde into them while they are still moving, (which kills them!) And give them to schools where they are told to dissect them.
  • That sounds like something an animal activist group who wants you to abandon logical thinking in favour of emotionally-charged thinking might say! Although I do know that fish are injected with formalin (formaldehyde in solution) live for preservation of a specimen.

    Check out this quote from Carolina, a biological supply company:
Carolina wrote:Response to the claim that many animals used in research are stolen pets

Animal activists prey on the emotions of pet owners. They falsely claim that pets are stolen and sold to medical research facilities and suppliers of animals for scientific research. According to the Americans for Medical Progress Educational Foundation, "There is no market for stolen pets in biomedical research. Well over ninety percent of the animals used in medical research are rodents. Dogs and cats account for less than one percent of the total number of lab animals needed by researchers."

The US Department of Agriculture, under the Animal Welfare Act, governs the procurement of animals. Carolina is proud to have an outstanding USDA inspection and compliance record, and we are committed to treating all animals in a humane manner.
The site goes on to state where their animal stock comes from. Check it out![/list]

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Re: Animals for science?

Post by laika_wolf » Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:05 pm

Sambhur wrote:
laika_wolf wrote:I personally disagree with the use of animals in science, especially dissection, entirely. Although we might like to tell ourselves that these animals are humanely raised and killed, it really isn't so. Here's a video that investigates where animals bred to be killed for dissection come from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hl0UQs8m4p0 Please be aware that it is graphic! But if what the animals endure is too painful to even watch, that's a clear sign that something is wrong. Even if it is more educational for students to use dissection to learn about animals' anatomies, is it really worth it?
I didn't want to comment on this thread but I really want to make sure you're getting your information from the right places! You've made a big mistake here, which is posting a link to a video from PETA. PETA is not for animal welfare, and does way more harm than good. Here's a resource to get you started on why PETA is actually horrible: http://animalwelfarists.tumblr.com/tagged/peta (the posts on this blog are full of links to good sources, so it's pretty easy to trust the information presented there! also go through it at your own risk; might be some nsfw content there). I honestly don't mean to be condescending, but you need to know who you're getting your information from. (: Basically I'm just saying: don't trust anything you see from PETA, please.
No, no! You didn't sound condescending. Thank you for the link. It was really informative. I was already not a fan of PETA because of the way they treat women in their advertising and I had heard about PETA killing animals in their shelters, but I had no idea that the killing was that extreme.
According to the link that Nordue provided, "Animal shelters furnish euthanized cats that would be destined for the landfill were we unable to utilize them for science classrooms." Because animal shelters can make money from euthanized animals, this encourages them to euthanize healthy animals sooner and more often. I don't see how this is any different from what PETA is doing, and we all agree that what PETA is doing is wrong.
Another section states, "Many animals and organisms are dead when we purchase them. For example, fishermen supply fish and sharks, and the fishing bait industry supplies earthworms." As for earthworms, I don't think they'll be going extinct any time soon and, as far as I know, they aren't sentient. However, fish and sharks are definitely on the verge of extinction. Check out these articles: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... tists.html http://ocean.nationalgeographic.com/oce ... erfishing/
As for killing animals stolen by pet owners, when I heard that I was very skeptical and I didn't believe it one bit. There's no way any company could get away with stealing enough pets to meet their consumers' demands.
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Re: Animals for science?

Post by SolitaryHowl » Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:48 am

I just wanted to tack on a little something.

Originally I was training to become a vet, so I had to dissect animals. Seeing animal anatomy (their organs and etc) on paper, and actually seeing them in the animal itself are COMPLETELY different. Especially things like arteries and veins; they like to 'hide' and are very hard to spot even when they are colour coded (red and blue). It has been often where I look at something in an animal and wonder what it is because it looks NOTHING like the textbook. Especially in veterinary medicine, hands-on education is key.

We dissected things like: euthanized cats from shelters (they were going to the dump anyways, might as well use them for education), cow eyes (they are killed for their meat and leather, might as well use parts of them for education), stuff like that. Everything was donated. I don't think a lot of animals are bred and specifically killed just for dissection anymore; its just too expensive. At least, that's how it is over here.

While I'm not studying to become a vet anymore, I appreciated the lessons I've learned while taking those courses.

Livestock and chickens and etc aren't just going to go away. They are bred for a reason; for our consumption. If we don't use them for those purposes, there is no reason to keep them around. You can't release them into the wild either; they are domesticated and wouldn't stand a chance. While I don't necessarily agree with HOW they are killed, I'm not about to become a vegetarian either.
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Re: Animals for science?

Post by laika_wolf » Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:35 pm

SolitaryHowl brings up an excellent point on dissecting animals normally raised for meat consumption. However, this leads us to think about the morality and sustainability of animal agriculture as a whole, which is a completely different discussion. I was tempted to create a topic here on WolfQuest about it, but it's a sensitive topic for many and I was worried I'd just create a downwards spiral of arguments.
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