Would you ever...

Discuss wolves (news, sightings, etc.).

Moderators: Isela, Koa

*points to question down bellow* please read before you vote :)

Any human being is more important than a beast
15
19%
Only if it was a human/animal VERY dear to me
30
38%
Only if I myself were in near-death danger
8
10%
O_O I would NEVER kill a wolf!
25
32%
 
Total votes: 78

Twilight12343
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Re: Would you ever...

Post by Twilight12343 » Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:07 pm

i really wouldnt want to...but if i didnt have a choice then...

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Blindseer
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Re: Would you ever...

Post by Blindseer » Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:10 pm

Ok then songdog, even if I didnt have a tranquilizer rifle I still wouldnt kill a wolf.

and also songdog, there has only been one documented death by a healthy death worldwide, and that happened in 2005 in canada, and it is still being debated whether it was a wolf or not. I want to know where you got all this "wolves have been eating people for as long as time can tell" stuff, because it is not true at all, I have researched this topic extensively and never found anything that says that.
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Songdog
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Re: Would you ever...

Post by Songdog » Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:11 pm

Wolves have been preying on humans for centuary. Where have you gotten your research?

So you honestly tell me that if a wolf was trying to kill you, you would do nothing to stop it?

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Re: Would you ever...

Post by Songdog » Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:15 pm

"Noted naturalists documented wolf attacks on humans. John James Audubon, of whom the Audubon Society is named, reported an attack involving 2 Negroes. He records that the men were traveling through a part of Kentucky near the Ohio border in winter. Due to the wild animals in the area the men carried axes on their shoulders as a precaution. While traveling through a heavily forested area, they were attacked by a pack of wolves. Using their axes, they attempted to fight off the wolves. Both men were knocked to the ground and severely wounded. One man was killed. The other dropped his axe and escaped up a tree. There he spent the night. The next morning the man climbed down from the tree. The bones of his friend lay scattered on the snow. Three wolves lay dead. He gathered up the axes and returned home with the news of the event. This incident occurred about 1830. (Audubon, J.J., and Bachman, J.; The Quadrupeds of North America, 3 volumes. New York, 1851 - 1854)"

"Rashid Jamsheed, a U.S. trained biologist, was the game director for Iran. He wrote a book entitled "Big Game Animals of Iran (Persia)." In it he made several references to wolf attacks on humans. Jamsheed says that for a millennia people have reported wolves attacking and killing humans. In winter, when starving wolves grow bold, they have been known to enter towns and kill people in daylight on the streets. Apparently, in Iran, there are many cases of wolves running off with small children. There is also a story of a mounted and armed policeman (gendarme) being followed by 3 wolves. In time he had to get off his horse to attend to nature’s call, leaving his rifle in the scabbard. A later reconstruction at the scene of the gnawed bones and wolf tracks indicated that the horse had bolted and left the man defenseless, whereupon he was killed and eaten."

"Alyshia Berzyck, of Minnesota, was attacked and killed by a wolf on a chain on June 3, 1989. The wolf tore up her kidney, liver and bit a hole through her aorta. One month later, on July 1, 1989, Peter Lemke, 5, lost 12 inches of his intestine and colon and suffered bites to his stomach, neck, legs, arms and back in another wolf attack in Kenyon, Minnesota. "


16. June 3, 1989 - Three year old Alyshia Berczyk was attacked and killed by a wolf in Forest Lake, Minnesota. The wolf had bitten her severely and had injured her kidneys, liver and bit through her aorta. Alyshia was playing in a backyard when she got too close to the chained wolf that grabbed her dress and pulled her down, attacking her.


Source: http://www.aws.vcn.com/

This question was also asked by some one on Yahoo Answers:
http://au.answers.yahoo.com/answers2/fr ... 342AACDbxw

Like I said, these incidents are usually from a very long time ago, it's not common in modern times.

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Blindseer
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Re: Would you ever...

Post by Blindseer » Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:22 pm

I didnt say that, I just said I wouldnt kill it. also, I dont believe a wolf would attempt to kill me or anyone else, unless one of us went and attacked it like I suspect that guy that got killed did.

I want to know where you got YOUR research, as it is not documented anywhere credible.

and due to the post you just made songdog, those are some the discredited news storys that get out but arent true. I have found a lot of stories like those on sites similar to this. I have researched thoseand found them false. You still havent posted anything of credibility.
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Re: Would you ever...

Post by Songdog » Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:47 pm

You have shown me no research, at least I have given some information. What evidence do you have that discredits my information?

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Re: Would you ever...

Post by Blindseer » Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:48 pm

the fact that there is nothing to credit yours.
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Songdog
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Re: Would you ever...

Post by Songdog » Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:49 pm

Why is it not credible? What makes it not credible?

Show me evidence otherwise or you have no claim to stand on. You told me you did "extensive research", so provide your evidence.

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Re: Would you ever...

Post by Songdog » Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:56 pm

"For historical cases we have only used episodes for which there is some form of contemporary written documentation, this excludes cases that only arise from the oral tradition. Data concerning wolf attacks on humans is highly fragmented and of very variable quality. As a result it has been impossible to provide a total summary of the numbers of people killed by wolves during any given period. Rather we have compiled a set of case studies that we have judged to be reliable from various parts of North America and Eurasia. Because of the nature of the data, many records need to be treated with caution. We have looked for broad patterns associated with wolf attacks on people. From the data collected there appears to be no doubt that wolves have on occasion attacked and killed people. We identified three types of wolf attack, (1) attacks by rabid wolves, (2) predatory attacks where wolves appear to have regarded humans as prey, and (3) defensive attacks where a wolf has bitten a person in response to being cornered or provoked."

Source: http://www.timberwolfinformation.org/

Does that meet your 'credibility qualifications"?

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Re: Would you ever...

Post by Kaheaniehal » Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:57 pm

Blindseer wrote:I didnt say that, I just said I wouldnt kill it. also, I dont believe a wolf would attempt to kill me or anyone else, unless one of us went and attacked it like I suspect that guy that got killed did.

I want to know where you got YOUR research, as it is not documented anywhere credible.

and due to the post you just made songdog, those are some the discredited news storys that get out but arent true. I have found a lot of stories like those on sites similar to this. I have researched thoseand found them false. You still havent posted anything of credibility.
Though I understand you'd never want to hurt a wolf.. My question WASN'T would you want to, or do wolves kill people...

The question is; If a wolf was trying to kill you or someone you loved dearly, would you kill it if you had to?
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Blindseer
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Re: Would you ever...

Post by Blindseer » Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:02 pm

I have searched for many hours on every news site, wolf site, and google and not found a single thing about those. all I have found is the repeated article on Kenton Carnegie. all these articles I have found inlocal papers with "claims" by local people who probably fear wolves ar just hate them. I have found numerous articles similar to what you posted and not a single one of them was in a noteworthy site, and most of them were just text documents that someone typed up in word. sorry, but I would not believe any of these "articles" unless significant proof is given.

sorry Songdog, that still does not meet my qualifications.

and kahea, my answers were for that question. I would not kill a wolf for any reason at all.

I will lock this topic if this gets too out of hand.
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Songdog
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Re: Would you ever...

Post by Songdog » Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:06 pm

Then tell me what you classify as "creditable" information. Because frankly, I'm loosing interest in debating. I can't try and reason with some one who doesn't want to be convinced otherwise.

But remember, you have shown me no creditable information as well.

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Re: Would you ever...

Post by Kaheaniehal » Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:11 pm

Blindseer wrote:
and kahea, my answers were for that question. I would not kill a wolf for any reason at all.
So... IF a wolf was trying to kill you to eat you... You'd let it eat you?
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Re: Would you ever...

Post by ChocolateRain » Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:11 pm

Songdog wrote:Researchers believe that the reduced aggression in North American species is a result from the human population, which were Natives at the time. Who is to say a Native wasn't eaten by a wolf? It would nto have been documented. Continuing, the reduced aggression comes from the lack of wolf hunting in earlier periods, unlike in Europe where they were hunted for sport and grew to both fear and dislike humans. Last reason to support the reduced aggression comes from the food source. In Europe where human population boomed, there was not as much food as in the still wild North America where their prey still thrived in large number. I'm, of course, referring to older periods in time, not the current.
So how did wolves go from living in all the lower 48 states to being endangered (yea not all are now but they were) and now living in only a select few? Native Americans hunted wolves just not as much as trappers and ranchers did in the late 1700s - early 1900s.

edit: This is why I find hypothetical questions really stupid. I mean honestly how many people here are actually gonna be in this situation?

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Re: Would you ever...

Post by Songdog » Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:13 pm

That was what I meant, I didn't mean that there was absolutely no wolf hunting, just not as much as in Europe. Sorry if it seemed I implied that.

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