Agencies consider new means of killing.....-Do YOU agree?

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Agencies consider new means of killing.....-Do YOU agree?

Post by TideTheWOLF » Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:21 pm

I read an article on the LA Times, that American government agencies are wanting to bump up killings and removal of Gray Wolves.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/unleash ... rotec.html


Here's the link to the article


Since the wolf populations are thriving, I can see how ranchers wanted to kill some of the wolves, but some of they ways they're disposing of them are just in-humane in my opinion. Read the article and comment on what your opinion is on this article.
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Re: Agencies consider new means of killing.....-Do YOU agree?

Post by Crocotto » Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:40 am

However in-humane is may seem, I am completely in agreement with these policies. Aerial hunting is, however in-humane and barbaric it seems to you, both necessary and effective. It disposes of wolves in a quick, efficient, and relatively painless manner.

Wolves have posed a real threat to both human and wild animal life in recent times. The species doesn't even deserve the endangered species status animal rights groups and backyard enthusiasts (good grief those people annoy me) have sued to get.
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Re: Agencies consider new means of killing.....-Do YOU agree?

Post by -Glacier- » Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:27 pm

I find many of the methods described in the article very inhumane, particularly poisoning wolves with gas. I am against hunting wolves unless necessary to protect livestock, etc. (And wolves only make up one percent of predator-caused sheep deaths; other predators and things like weather and disease kill them at higher percentages.)
Crocotto wrote:Aerial hunting is, however in-humane and barbaric it seems to you, both necessary and effective. It disposes of wolves in a quick, efficient, and relatively painless manner.

Sure, it's a quicker way to find wolves, but it isn't very humane at all; it's extremely stressful and exhausting on the animals, and if the shot isn't accurate, the wounds will inflict unnecessary pain. Also, aerial hunting isn't fair sportsmanship. If you're going hunting, at least do it fairly and show some respect for your quarry.

Crocotto wrote:Wolves have posed a real threat to both human and wild animal life in recent times.

While I realize that wolf attacks have become more common in recent times (yes, I've read the article "Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Wolf?" that Blightwolf posted earlier from the IWC's site), attacks on humans by healthy, wild, unprovoked wolves remain rare and unusual in North America. In fact, "a person in wolf country has a greater chance of being killed by a dog, lightning, a bee sting or a car collision with a deer than being injured by a wolf." -from the International Wolf Center's brochure "Are Wolves Dangerous to Humans?", found here: http://www.wolf.org/wolves/learn/basic/ ... gerous.pdf

Also, I would like to say I'm not trying to argue with anyone here; I'm simply stating my own opinions.
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Re: Agencies consider new means of killing.....-Do YOU agree?

Post by Canidae » Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:42 pm

I'd like to point something out. The article discusses how aerial gunning might be used to control populations. There's a difference between aerial gunning done by state organizations, and aerial hunting done by citizens.


Here's how I view it:

Yes, I will agree that it's inhumane for wolves to be shot from the air. I've seen videos and it's disturbing, but who claimed that wildlife management is a pretty ordeal? While hunters might be bound by "moral codes," meaning that they only take their prey by humane means...government agencies are not bound by morals, even though it can be argued that they should be.

-Glacier- wrote:
While I realize that wolf attacks have become more common in recent times (yes, I've read the article "Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Wolf?" that Blightwolf posted earlier from the IWC's site), attacks on humans by healthy, wild, unprovoked wolves remain rare and unusual in North America.

I see the forum is doing its job. =D Thank you for saying "rare and unusual," instead of saying it's never happened, like numerous amounts of people still believe.
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Re: Agencies consider new means of killing.....-Do YOU agree?

Post by -Glacier- » Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:20 pm

Canidae wrote:I'd like to point something out. The article discusses how aerial gunning might be used to control populations. There's a difference between aerial gunning done by state organizations, and aerial hunting done by citizens.

Oh right, I forgot that government agencies use aerial gunning as a wolf-management method.

Canidae wrote:I see the forum is doing its job. =D Thank you for saying "rare and unusual," instead of saying it's never happened, like numerous amounts of people still believe.

No problem; that's what I always say. ^^" I don't know why some people still claim that wolf attacks never happen.
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Re: Agencies consider new means of killing.....-Do YOU agree?

Post by Crocotto » Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:26 pm

-Glacier- wrote:I find many of the methods described in the article very inhumane, particularly poisoning wolves with gas. I am against hunting wolves unless necessary to protect livestock, etc. (And wolves only make up one percent of predator-caused sheep deaths; other predators and things like weather and disease kill them at higher percentages.)

While I realize that wolf attacks have become more common in recent times (yes, I've read the article "Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Wolf?" that Blightwolf posted earlier from the IWC's site), attacks on humans by healthy, wild, unprovoked wolves remain rare and unusual in North America. In fact, "a person in wolf country has a greater chance of being killed by a dog, lightning, a bee sting or a car collision with a deer than being injured by a wolf." -from the International Wolf Center's brochure "Are Wolves Dangerous to Humans?", found here: http://www.wolf.org/wolves/learn/basic/ ... gerous.pdf

Also, I would like to say I'm not trying to argue with anyone here; I'm simply stating my own opinions.
You'd be surprised what that one percent can do. You have to remember, the life of a Rancher or Sheppard is a rough one. Many of them get just one paycheck a year, and it isn't a big one. That one paycheck is based on the amount of live stock they have. Now, despite not appearing to do much damage, wolves are a major threat to these people's lifestyle.
1. Wolves regularly commit acts of predation called Surplus Killing , which means a wolf or a group of wolves kill a large amount of prey, and don't eat any parts of the corpse. They are one of the few carnivores who do this.
Example: in June 29th, 9 wolves killed an entire flock of 70 sheep, having killed up to 190 the previous 2 years. Corpses vitally untouched
http://www.hcn.org/issues/284/15048
That 1% may not seem like much to you, but in a growing number of cases, people's livelihoods are put at risk
It's easy to support wolf protection when you live in the city, it's hard for someone in the country, and it's extremely hard if your a rancher or sheppard

In addition to when I said 'threat to human and animal life', Wolves are also directly responsible for parasite and viral outbreaks throughout the North West; many of these diseases and parasites, such as anthrax and tape worms; are transferable to humans.

The main reason why Aerial hunting in effective is because of where it's used. Aerial hunting is used in terrain where hunters would have a rough time finding any game to begin with, let alone wolves. And you have to think of how the ends justify the means.
Which is better?
About a dozen wolves harvested on foot, and the wolf population is still growing?
or a couple dozen wolves harvested from aircraft and the wolf population is now stable?
And besides, the wolf gets so charged up on endorphins and adrenaline that it eases it's stress and almost completely nullifies the brief moment of pain it's in
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Re: Agencies consider new means of killing.....-Do YOU agree?

Post by -Glacier- » Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:54 pm

Crocotto wrote:You'd be surprised what that one percent can do. You have to remember, the life of a Rancher or Sheppard is a rough one. Many of them get just one paycheck a year, and it isn't a big one. That one paycheck is based on the amount of live stock they have. Now, despite not appearing to do much damage, wolves are a major threat to these people's lifestyle.
1. Wolves regularly commit acts of predation called Surplus Killing , which means a wolf or a group of wolves kill a large amount of prey, and don't eat any parts of the corpse. They are one of the few carnivores who do this.
Example: in June 29th, 9 wolves killed an entire flock of 70 sheep, having killed up to 190 the previous 2 years. Corpses vitally untouched
http://www.hcn.org/issues/284/15048
That 1% may not seem like much to you, but in a growing number of cases, people's livelihoods are put at risk
It's easy to support wolf protection when you live in the city, it's hard for someone in the country, and it's extremely hard if your a rancher or sheppard
I've heard of surplus killing, and I didn't know that wolves regularly did it, but I suppose that's because I was reading about how it occasionally happens in the wild with other prey such as elk and deer. It's definitely more likely that wolves would kill more than they'll eat in an enclosure full of domesticated animals.

And I wasn't saying that the one percent of sheep lost by wolves is insignificant- I know that wolves are responsible for thousands of sheep and other livestock moralities each year. I was just saying that wolves are only one cause of how livestock may be lost, though I can imagine how hard it must be to lose an animal to a predator, as well as knowing how it'll affect your finances.
Last edited by -Glacier- on Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Agencies consider new means of killing.....-Do YOU agree?

Post by Canidae » Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:13 pm

And besides, the wolf gets so charged up on endorphins and adrenaline that it eases it's stress and almost completely nullifies the brief moment of pain it's in
I don't agree with that. Could you provide a source as to where you found that?


Yes endorphins and adrenaline will be present, but being shot is still going to hurt like crazy. Heck, it even hurts like crazy if you trip and scrape your knees while in a race (which is also stressful and adrenaline pumping).

And often, the moment of pain that wolves are in is not brief. Sometimes they get shot but not killed, and the shooters have to actually land the plane and shoot the wolf up-close-and-personal to put it out of its misery. I imagine the process of finding a good landing point, landing the plane, and walking over to the wolf would take several minutes.

But still, I can still see the benefits of aerial hunting...I just don't exactly like it.
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Re: Agencies consider new means of killing.....-Do YOU agree?

Post by Jayness » Wed Sep 15, 2010 7:08 pm

But still, I can still see the benefits of aerial hunting...I just don't exactly like it
I agree, if the wolf population needs to be lowered, although I don't see why, I guess it has too, I hope this aerial hunting helps ease the pain of these poor wolves.
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Re: Agencies consider new means of killing.....-Do YOU agree?

Post by GizmoWolf » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:32 am

This is interesting.
I am not a fan of the areal means of killing wolves, it does sound in-humane and I don't agree with it. Since it would put a lot of stress on the animal, wolves in the case, that are being hunted.
Although, since it is wolf-managment I guess it would be okay?
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Re: Agencies consider new means of killing.....-Do YOU agree?

Post by SolitaryHowl » Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:27 am

I don't agree with aerial hunting - I think it's inhumane. While I agree with the fact that populations have to be kept under control, there are other means.

For example, I watched a documentary quite a while ago. In northern Canada, the wolf population was getting out of control, so a team of people (vets, and etc) spayed and neutered the dominant wolves of almost every pack. That way, they would still breed, but would not produce any puppies. I forget what it's called, or I'd watch it again. I'm a bit foggy on the details.
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Re: Agencies consider new means of killing.....-Do YOU agree?

Post by GizmoWolf » Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:30 am

SolitaryHowl wrote:I don't agree with aerial hunting - I think it's inhumane. While I agree with the fact that populations have to be kept under control, there are other means.

For example, I watched a documentary quite a while ago. In northern Canada, the wolf population was getting out of control, so a team of people (vets, and etc) spayed and neutered the dominant wolves of almost every pack. That way, they would still breed, but would not produce any puppies. I forget what it's called, or I'd watch it again. I'm a bit foggy on the details.
I agree with this, what SolitaryHowl said would probably be a bit more humane when it comes to keeping the wolf population down.
This is just a bit weird, and even a bit unreasonable in my mind. Other means, such as (none arial) shooting, or what SolitaryHowl said would be better for keeping populations from getting out of hand.
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Re: Agencies consider new means of killing.....-Do YOU agree?

Post by Kouga » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:42 am

Don't wolves wander off most of the time, especially in a pack which's leadership is too strong to be overthrown? How can a population get "out of hand", when the young wolves wander off?
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Re: Agencies consider new means of killing.....-Do YOU agree?

Post by shadowwolf966 » Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:03 am

-Glacier- wrote: Sure, it's a quicker way to find wolves, but it isn't very humane at all; it's extremely stressful and exhausting on the animals, and if the shot isn't accurate, the wounds will inflict unnecessary pain. Also, aerial hunting isn't fair sportsmanship. If you're going hunting, at least do it fairly and show some respect for your quarry.
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Re: Agencies consider new means of killing.....-Do YOU agree?

Post by Canidae » Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:12 am

Kouga wrote:Don't wolves wander off most of the time, especially in a pack which's leadership is too strong to be overthrown? How can a population get "out of hand", when the young wolves wander off?

This is actually why the populations get "out of hand."


When younger wolves disperse, they'll then hook up with another wolf and often have pups with them. Then when those pups are grown up, they'll disperse, find a mate, and have pups. Wolves are able to increase their numbers quite rapidly.
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