Poodle-wolf hybrids- Erik Zimen's study

Discuss wolves (news, sightings, etc.).

Moderators: Isela, Koa

Post Reply
User avatar
roguemoon
Yearling
Yearling
Posts: 421
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:40 pm
Gender: Female
Location: Canada

Poodle-wolf hybrids- Erik Zimen's study

Post by roguemoon » Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:34 pm

So I stumbled upon an interesting photo of biologist Erik Zimen's experiment in studying whether or not wolves an coyotes could be trained as sled dogs. While looking into this experiment, as well as the rest of Zimen's research on wolves and domestication, I came across his study on the differences between wolf behaviour and poodle behaviour. He ended up breeding some of his male poodles and female captive wolves together to study the behaviour of the unusual offspring, producing the 'puwo'.
The so-called puwos are rather interesting looking, so here's some photos:

http://wyrmracks.tumblr.com/post/129291 ... s-or-puwos
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-a4bLiUfilz8/T ... s+II+1.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9mbZIMY_wm0/T ... uwos+3.jpg

As well, a short article I found that discussed the behavioural differences he found between the poodles and wolves, as well as the behaviour of the puwo offspring: http://dogpsychology.dog-articles.net/a ... odles.html

He also attempted to breed female poodles and male wolves (the offspring being called 'wopus'), but it was apparently less successful as it was more difficult to get a male wolf and female poodle to breed.
"No matter where they are, the restless imagine being somewhere else."
Avatar credit to Lupinz

User avatar
Koa
WolfQuest Moderator
WolfQuest Moderator
Posts: 12935
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:53 pm
Gender: Female
Contact:

Re: Poodle-wolf hybrids- Erik Zimen's study

Post by Koa » Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:27 pm

This is the first time I've heard of the "puwos" study, so thank you for sharing, roguemoon. I'll look more into it when I have time, but the puwos look like quite the characters in the photos.
YOU SAY YOU WANT TO GET BETTER AND YOU DON'T KNOW HOW.

User avatar
Jeames
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 4153
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:43 am
Name: Jeames, Jea
Gender: Other
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Poodle-wolf hybrids- Erik Zimen's study

Post by Jeames » Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:55 am

Oh, this is rather interesting. The hybrids look more like a dog than a wolf, for sure. They sort of look like a dog my mother or father either used to have when they were little kids. They could easily be confused with a simple dog hybrid.
. - Jeames - .

For the last time,
I am a STICK okay?!?!
Oh and I own Paradiigm.
Now I must go annoy Dom.
sig/av ↝ Paradiigm/noir_187

User avatar
roguemoon
Yearling
Yearling
Posts: 421
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:40 pm
Gender: Female
Location: Canada

Re: Poodle-wolf hybrids- Erik Zimen's study

Post by roguemoon » Sun Jan 17, 2016 2:30 pm

Semper Solus wrote:Oh, this is rather interesting. The hybrids look more like a dog than a wolf, for sure. They sort of look like a dog my mother or father either used to have when they were little kids. They could easily be confused with a simple dog hybrid.
I agree, it's hard to see the wolf in most of them. They look a little like a schnauzer mix to me in the first photo.
In the first photo, the stance of the two in the background feels a little...wolfish to me. Hard to explain what I mean. They definitely look like regular dogs but they have a wolfish posture, but apart from that they don't resemble the wolf side very much. The brown pup in the second photo is the only one that really strongly resembles a wolf to me just for it's fur colour and body.
"No matter where they are, the restless imagine being somewhere else."
Avatar credit to Lupinz

User avatar
Kamaal
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1080
Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 9:08 am
Name: Kam
Gender: Female
Location: Wanna take a guess?

Re: Poodle-wolf hybrids- Erik Zimen's study

Post by Kamaal » Sun Jan 17, 2016 2:32 pm

roguemoon wrote:
Semper Solus wrote:Oh, this is rather interesting. The hybrids look more like a dog than a wolf, for sure. They sort of look like a dog my mother or father either used to have when they were little kids. They could easily be confused with a simple dog hybrid.
I agree, it's hard to see the wolf in most of them. They look a little like a schnauzer mix to me in the first photo.
In the first photo, the stance of the two in the background feels a little...wolfish to me. Hard to explain what I mean. They definitely look like regular dogs but they have a wolfish posture, but apart from that they don't resemble the wolf side very much. The brown pup in the second photo is the only one that really strongly resembles a wolf to me just for it's fur colour and body.
Totally agreeing with your Roguemoon, they do really look like dogs, even if their gaze resembles the wolf's. Interesting article, but I must admit that I got a bit irritated by those actions, they are "unnecessary" if you ask me.
I ran out of snarky remarks, unfortunately.
Avatar © LupinzPack

User avatar
Koa
WolfQuest Moderator
WolfQuest Moderator
Posts: 12935
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:53 pm
Gender: Female
Contact:

Re: Poodle-wolf hybrids- Erik Zimen's study

Post by Koa » Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:10 pm

Kamaal wrote:
roguemoon wrote:
Semper Solus wrote:Oh, this is rather interesting. The hybrids look more like a dog than a wolf, for sure. They sort of look like a dog my mother or father either used to have when they were little kids. They could easily be confused with a simple dog hybrid.
I agree, it's hard to see the wolf in most of them. They look a little like a schnauzer mix to me in the first photo.
In the first photo, the stance of the two in the background feels a little...wolfish to me. Hard to explain what I mean. They definitely look like regular dogs but they have a wolfish posture, but apart from that they don't resemble the wolf side very much. The brown pup in the second photo is the only one that really strongly resembles a wolf to me just for it's fur colour and body.
Totally agreeing with your Roguemoon, they do really look like dogs, even if their gaze resembles the wolf's. Interesting article, but I must admit that I got a bit irritated by those actions, they are "unnecessary" if you ask me.
What actions, specifically? The breeding between wolves and poodles?
I'd like to know more about this study, and more specifically, be able to find a copy of his book I can read to give more of an opinion. I will say that wolves have been bred with dogs many times before, both by the hands of nature and by the hands of humans; this is nothing new, and the breeding of dogs, by human hands, is not the only thing we've experimented with in terms of breeding.

The only short review I can find of his study (that criticizes him) is this one in New Scientist:
Zimen also seems at times to behave in an irresponsible way with the wolves, putting their lives and his own in jeopardy. Several times, members of his pack escape through his own thoughtlessness. On other occasions he is attacked after unwitting provocation of the wolves, which are after all, wild predators, not dogs. If he had been killed or wounded, the cause of the wolf would have been set back yet again by main's interference.
New Scientist p. 853
YOU SAY YOU WANT TO GET BETTER AND YOU DON'T KNOW HOW.

User avatar
Azuline
Pup
Pup
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 5:28 pm
Name: Toby
Gender: Male
Location: North Carolina, United States

Re: Poodle-wolf hybrids- Erik Zimen's study

Post by Azuline » Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:39 pm

This is very interesting to come across! When I think of wolf hybrids, I would never have thought of a poodle mixed with a wolf.
I can definitely see the resemblance of both; however, the puwos definitely look more like dogs than actual wolves. They did maintain the scruffy coat texture of wolves but it seems to be slightly curly like a poodle Although, the hybrid looks more akin to terriers to me. I have a terrier mix and she looks very similar to these hybrids.
"Blessed are the children of the Horned One."
:moose:

-S.J. Tucker

User avatar
-FireBreaker-
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 378
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2015 12:48 pm
Name: Fire
Gender: Female
Location: Nahh

Re: Poodle-wolf hybrids- Erik Zimen's study

Post by -FireBreaker- » Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:58 pm

This is interesting, indeed. I never thought there would be wolf hybrids like this.
Just like some already said, they do look more like dogs than wolves. I can see a little bit of wolf in them, but mostly it looks more like a poodle.
·.·´¯`·.· ·.·´¯`·.·´·.·´¯`·.· ·.·´¯`·.·´
Wh¥ §hðµlÐ ï åþðlðgïzê £ðr hê mðñ§êr ï'vê ßê¢ðmê
ñð ðñê êvêr åþðlðgïzêÐ £ðr måkïñg mê hï§ wå¥
`.¸¸.´´¯`` .¸¸.´`.¸¸.´´¯`` .¸¸.´
:: av/sig © Lupin/Samber ::

User avatar
Koa
WolfQuest Moderator
WolfQuest Moderator
Posts: 12935
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:53 pm
Gender: Female
Contact:

Re: Poodle-wolf hybrids- Erik Zimen's study

Post by Koa » Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:19 pm

For the first photo, it seems that the eyes are a little yellow-ish and wolf-esque, but I cannot quite tell and am not sure if the supposed coloration is a product of the photo lighting. The same, apparent nature and coloration of the eyes does not appear to be present in the last two photos. (Although I will make note that, in the second photo, the shape seems more wolf-like. In the third photo, this is hard to discern.) Has anyone found any specific references to their eye color/eye shape variations in the literature?
YOU SAY YOU WANT TO GET BETTER AND YOU DON'T KNOW HOW.

User avatar
La Striata
Yearling
Yearling
Posts: 352
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:01 pm
Location: Wadi-Abu-Diba

Re: Poodle-wolf hybrids- Erik Zimen's study

Post by La Striata » Tue Jan 19, 2016 3:56 am

I think Zimen did the same thing with poodles and jackals.
I cannot see that wolves are in any way nobler in character than hyenas- Frederick Selous

Post Reply

Return to “General Wolf Discussion”