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Re: Wildlife officials hire hunter to kill wolves

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:46 pm
by firedog6
La Striata, are you saying you kill animals for pleasure? If you do, than why in this great big world are you here?
Yes, if you do kill animals for pleasure, than I do. Being on a wolf-related site gives you absolutely no shields.

Re: Wildlife officials hire hunter to kill wolves

Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:39 am
by La Striata
firedog6 wrote:La Striata, are you saying you kill animals for pleasure? If you do, than why in this great big world are you here?
Yes, if you do kill animals for pleasure, than I do. Being on a wolf-related site gives you absolutely no shields.
I live in an urban area, but I regularly hunt pheasants, rabbits and squirrels and eat them. And last I checked there's no rule on this forum prohibiting membership on the basis of being a hunter or not.

Re: Wildlife officials hire hunter to kill wolves

Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 5:48 am
by alethe
firedog6 wrote:Being on a wolf-related site gives you absolutely no shields.
What was this comment even supposed to mean? Believe it or not, most of the people on here are pro-hunt within reason and law.

Re: Wildlife officials hire hunter to kill wolves

Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:20 am
by firedog6
I don't know. But you eat them, so you're killing them for a cause, not for trophy or that other "keep population by killing" stuff. Scratch the wilderness part...
And of course there is no rules, because that is something in real life. If one of the rules was "Nobody shall hunt in their actual lives or else they are to be banned." then everybody could hunt and nobody would be banned. And I cannot change that, but I have a right to dislike people here who kill for trophy.

Re: Wildlife officials hire hunter to kill wolves

Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 4:32 pm
by pickledham
I have to agree that killing for sport is wrong, but I don't hate the people that do it. There's not much harm to be done if they're following the law and not killing creatures to extinction. Hunting for food and resources is fine. I am definitely pro-hunting if it's not abused; my father enjoys hunting, and I see no problem with it. Animals kill for fun as well, I've observed.
Anyway, back on topic. I agree that the wolves should be stopped from killing too many elk calves, but why couldn't the hunters relocate the wolves rather than kill them? I guess it's too late now to stop them from doing so, though.
ALSO: I have to disagree that the wolves own the land. There's simply no evidence to suggest that. Wolves could have migrated (I don't mean actual migration, as seen in wildebeest and such) there only recently. Why does everything have to be twisted to make humans into bad guys?

Re: Wildlife officials hire hunter to kill wolves

Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:58 pm
by firedog6
Hunting for sport is BAD. Wolves are individuals with their own lives! If you shoot a human, it is considered murder and the killer goes to jail. Why is it ANY different with wolves? Wolves are different from us in many ways, but they have the same FEELINGS!!! Same with those poor elk and deer who had their guts blasted out from no where so the killer can slice it off their heads and pin it on the wall! If you did that to a human, they would be put to prison. Why is it any different with these innocent creatures? Why are these murderers getting away with this horrid stuff?! That's what's wrong with the whole world today; people treat animals by default OMEGAS! They are NOT TOYS! They have the same system, they have feelings, why is there so much murdering and so much getting away with it!? Why are everybody's minds like this? And animals can kill for fun, because they don't know the difference between RIGHT and WRONG - but WE DO. There IS MUCH harm to be done even if they are following the rules! They're murdering these innocent creatures for FUN! FUN!!! Go play a game of Monopoly for fun! Of course it's fine to kill for resources & food, but not for PLEASURE, or FUN, or SLICING off the poor animal's HEAD for "TROPHY". Yes, if we are really going to protect our fellow creatures, you would tranquilize the wolves and relocate them, not blast their guts out. I heard of a black bear that ate 8,000 dollars worth of honey, and the honey-owner wanted to have the bear killed! Is that really going to get your money back? Is that going to teach the bear a lesson? No! Instead, try removing the bear from the area. You're not going to get your honey back, nor the elk calf meat, so get on with life and relocate the wolves. (P.S. the bear was saved by a zoo. :D ) But yes, the wolves don't own the land. Nobody does. We share it, but the problem is that humans are taking too much. So I don't see why the wolves can't train themselves to use a gun and get some HUMAN POPULATION down, this time!

Re: Wildlife officials hire hunter to kill wolves

Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:59 am
by La Striata
firedog6 wrote:If you shoot a human, it is considered murder and the killer goes to jail. Why is it ANY different with wolves?
Because the word murder implies the killing of a member of your own species. Last I heard, wolves aren't human. Heck, they're not even primates.
firedog6 wrote:Wolves are different from us in many ways, but they have the same FEELINGS!!!
Pigs do too. Do you like bacon?


firedog6 wrote:Same with those poor elk and deer who had their guts blasted out from no where so the killer can slice it off their heads and pin it on the wall!
Actually, it's their hearts that usually get blasted out. And most of the time, the body is eaten. What's wrong with keeping the head if the rest is eaten?
firedog6 wrote:If you did that to a human, they would be put to prison. Why is it any different with these innocent creatures?
Because they're not human.
firedog6 wrote:That's what's wrong with the whole world today; people treat animals by default OMEGAS! They are NOT TOYS!
The world today? Neolithic artifacts appear to show that this has been going on since the infancy of our species.
firedog6 wrote:They have the same system, they have feelings, why is there so much murdering and so much getting away with it!? Why are everybody's minds like this?
Same system of what? Not government I hope.
firedog6 wrote:And animals can kill for fun, because they don't know the difference between RIGHT and WRONG - but WE DO.
So they don't have the same feelings?
firedog6 wrote:So I don't see why the wolves can't train themselves to use a gun and get some HUMAN POPULATION down, this time!
Hmmm, I'd be careful at this point. What you're advocating sounds suspiciously like ethnic cleansing...

Re: Wildlife officials hire hunter to kill wolves

Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 3:38 pm
by firedog6
Wolves are not primates, nor humans. But they are creatures, living ones. Like us, so I will use another word if "murder" means to kill your own species.
I've also become vegetarian when I began thinking about this so deeply.
And if the whole body is eaten, than it would be okay to take the head. I didn't know that they usually ate the body.
But that whole "they're not human" thing is BOGUS. It is unreal, artificial, it deserves to be urinated on and flushed down the toilet. So what? They have the same nervous system, or whatever it's called, and they feel the same pain, so why is it any different? Why are we, by default, better than animals?
And yes, now that I think of it this has been going on for thousands of years.
Not the same government system... I meant organs, if you'd get that. You probably don't. :\
They do have the same feelings, but not the same... I don't know what to call it; but they don't know the difference between right and wrong, but we do. I don't see why they can't have the same feelings but not know between right and wrong.
I have no idea what "ethnic cleansing is"... But that was something I blurted out in anger/unhapness.

Re: Wildlife officials hire hunter to kill wolves

Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 3:59 pm
by alethe
Humans are primates, look at an evolutionary chart.

Hunters aren't mindless, inhumane beasts like you're suggesting. Often times the animal is eaten, or at least skinned for fur. Now, I can see your argument now. "Taking something for its fur is horrible and heartless." No, not really. Let's take fox for example. People aren't going to pay anything for fox meat. Fur, however, has a good price. Say, I hunt a fox, skin it, sell the fur, and with the money I earn, I can buy food, clothing, and shelter for myself and family. Is that really so bad?

Re: Wildlife officials hire hunter to kill wolves

Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 4:28 pm
by Adalae
firedog6 wrote:Wolves are not primates, nor humans. But they are creatures, living ones. Like us, so I will use another word if "murder" means to kill your own species.
I've also become vegetarian when I began thinking about this so deeply.
And if the whole body is eaten, than it would be okay to take the head. I didn't know that they usually ate the body.
But that whole "they're not human" thing is BOGUS. It is unreal, artificial, it deserves to be urinated on and flushed down the toilet. So what? They have the same nervous system, or whatever it's called, and they feel the same pain, so why is it any different? Why are we, by default, better than animals?
Humans are capable of higher thought and consciousness that wolves are simply not capable of.
A human's scientific name is homo sapien (meaning wise man because we have bigger brains.) There were other species of the same genus ('homo'), including the Neanderthal. The reason the other genus' died out was because we had a bigger brain and higher thought processes. We developed a language, we could make tools and had many other advantages leading to the survival of our species and the extinction of the others.

Both the Neanderthals and homo sapiens had a common ancestor. Other primates had the same common ancestor, which is the reason why they are so much like us. However, they are not humans. They exhibit intelligence, of course, and other human-like qualities but they are not as advanced.

It is similar with wolves. We share some common ancestor with wolves, however that was many millions of years ago and far further back compared with us and primates. Wolves clearly show some sign of emotion and understanding (pack bonding), but they are not capable of higher thought (they don't practice religion and they can't build tools or start their own governments, clearly. If they did it would be Planet of the Ape Wolves all up in here.)

In conclusion, scientifically speaking, they are not human. They are not of the same species or the same genus. They may feel emotion and instinct but they are not capable of higher thought. We are "better than animals" because of our complex thought processes and advancements in comparison. Wolves are driven by instinct. They don't individually think in their heads as we do, or process things in the same way. So they would feel fear or aggression if being hunted, but they wouldn't really know what's going on.

Re: Wildlife officials hire hunter to kill wolves

Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:30 am
by firedog6
We are not better than animals. I know that we are smarter, BUT WE ARE NOT BETTER. Even if we were, because we're better, than we have a right to kill these innocent creatures? You clearly stated that they have emotion, is not that enough?

And it is bad to kill foxes. It is. Those hunters are blind, inhumane, unearthly idiots for killing something - I KNOW, not in the same family or anything, for their own benefit. It would be much easier and BETTER for the entire community if they just sold fake fur. That would put money and dinner on their table, yet they aren't harming anything. Isn't that better? And I doubt anybody would eat a wolf. It is very horrible and heartless to kill something for it's fur. Would you enjoy it if you were just walking in the woods, minding your own business, when suddenly BOOM. You feel a burst of pain and then every thing, your family, your feelings, your LIFE is gone. Oh, yeah, right - it's okay to do that because animals aren't as smart as us. Keep holdin' on to that thought, buddy.

Re: Wildlife officials hire hunter to kill wolves

Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 3:04 am
by La Striata
firedog6 wrote:Wolves are not primates, nor humans. But they are creatures, living ones. Like us, so I will use another word if "murder" means to kill your own species.
Is English even your first language? I find your confusion over the meaning of murder quite baffling.
firedog6 wrote:And if the whole body is eaten, than it would be okay to take the head. I didn't know that they usually ate the body.
If they didn't, you'd expect to see headless carcasses strewn about forested areas every time you went for a walk. In any case, they would provide food for scavengers, something wolves in Yellowstone are constantly praised for.
firedog6 wrote:They have the same nervous system, or whatever it's called, and they feel the same pain, so why is it any different?
Because we're not the same species. We're not even the same genus, family or order. I for one know that fish, birds and reptiles definitely don't share the same feelings or nervous system as us. Would you advocate killing them instead of mammals?
firedog6 wrote:I have no idea what "ethnic cleansing is"...
That's very, very worrying.
firedog6 wrote:t would be much easier and BETTER for the entire community if they just sold fake fur.
Do you even know how fake fur is produced? Fake fur is made from textiles such as polyester and nylon, both of which are responsible for poisoning rivers and oceans. Heck, nylon production is responsible for a huge part of greenhouse emissions. Furthermore, unlike real fur, fake fur is not biodegradable. Polyester on the other hand is made from petrochemicals, that is, fossil fuels. Wars have been started and atrocities comitted for access to this resource which isn't going to last forever, so it's absolutely scandalous that it's being wasted on making fake fur jackets.
firedog6 wrote:And I doubt anybody would eat a wolf.
Actually, there are plenty of examples of frontiersmen, explorers, Native Americans and Siberian tribesmen regularly eating wolf meat. It's quite good from what I've read. Here's what Stanley Young had to say about it:

To the writer, the thought of eating dog or wolf flesh formerly caused a gastronomic revulsion; but having tried the cooked lean meat of both the dog and the wolf, he now realizes that the reason for the revulsion was purely psychological. Anyway, if circumstances decreed that one eat wolf meat or starve, there is little doubt that the former alternative would be accepted. The meat of the wolf is rather tough, but the taste is not unlike that of an old buck deer. Jerked wolf meat tastes more like jerked venison, though it is somewhat tougher. In texture it resembles dried goat meat, and though somewhat stringy, can be pounded into a flour-like powder. It is difficult to distinguish the taste of the flesh of the dog from that of wolf meat. Wolf meat, unless cooked far beyond the usual time allotted for most domestic meats, is tough and rubbery. Sometimes too it will have a strong odor, similar to the meat of an old bear that has been living on carrion, larvae, and insects for a long period prior to being utilized for food.- The Wolves of North America, Vol. I

Re: Wildlife officials hire hunter to kill wolves

Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 3:54 am
by alethe
Those hunters are blind, inhumane, unearthly idiots for killing something - I KNOW, not in the same family or anything, for their own benefit. It would be much easier and BETTER for the entire community if they just sold fake fur. That would put money and dinner on their table, yet they aren't harming anything.
No, not really. Fake fur comes from factories. You would earn less than what you'd get if you sold real fur, which is also worth more. Your priorities are messed up, sorry. As long as animals are not overhunted in an area, it is okay to hunt them. People do things that you might not like. That's their choice, not yours.

Re: Wildlife officials hire hunter to kill wolves

Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:59 am
by Chumpkins_
I guess that makes wolves, cats, dogs, foxes and other animals mindless inhuman idiots too. Nature is a terrible place filled with murder and killing and extinction. We are only taking our place. All your pouting won't do anything. Being killed in nature is just how it works.
And by the way, if a bear ate $8,000 worth of my honey, I'd gladly kill it. Imagine how angry that made that person.

Re: Wildlife officials hire hunter to kill wolves

Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:18 pm
by firedog6
Yes, they are inhuman idiots. Nature is a life-versus-death type of place. Although for no reason, those idiotic, pathetic, lifeless hunters walk in and make it an even worse place and they don't even have to.

And why would you kill it!? It made you so angry that you'd want to kill it, why wouldn't it make you so angry you wanted to relocate it to Hungary? Killing won't do a thing except show that you are a heartless, cold person.
In a nutshell (POSSIBLY...?) I hate hunters because they make nature an even worse place and they shoot innocent beings. Yes I KNOW THAT animals are "lower" because they're stupider but that gives them NO RIGHT to kill fellow innocent beings.

And I'm not pouting, just because I don't use these scientific blabber-mouth stuffs does not mean I'm ignorant. And yes, English IS my first language. I didn't perfectly understand the definition of "murder"; my 18-year-old sister doesn't quite remember how to spell Fiona and it's my dog's name. Quite baffling, indeed.

And I just don't agree with killing an animals for it's fur. I mean, I know polyester and those other fake fur materials destroy the ocean but I just don't agree with real fur. And it is nice that they aren't over killing, but it's not just the population that matters, it's the specific individual animal that was killed, also. They deserve our respect; they are beings, too. Oh, right, I forgot! Because animals are not as smart and cannot start the same government systems, then they (by default) are lower than us and we have a right to kill them for pleasure. They're like infants; their minds are, at least. And you think that hunters have a right to kill them because of that - but if they want soft coats, why not go to an orphanage and kill some newborns? You'd get some soft skin, and the infants can't build tools yet or start governments, so it's pretty much the same as killing a fox. i know that sounds creepy, but it is just as creepy as killing a fox.